May 2000 - Zope - Zope lists

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed
by Roman Milner 26 May '00

26 May '00

>>>>> "KD" == Kevin Dangoor <kid(a)kendermedia.com> writes: KD> I think Zope offers a ton of features that I wouldn't want to KD> give up. (And I've been watching what the other servers out KD> there are doing, and I still appreciate the power given by KD> Zope.) I don't question at all that zope is awesome. KD> I haven't heard of anyone standing up and saying "I'm not KD> going to use Linux, because people might write tools in perl KD> [or awk, or C, or lisp, or sh, or yacc or postscript, or ...]" KD> Perhaps that's a better way to look at Zope... not as a python KD> web application, but as a high-level OS extension for dynamic KD> web applications. Well, I don't think that analogy applies directly. People will ask, "do you know zope", and in order to say yes - I will need to know perl. The answer "yes except for the perl bits" won't fly with an employer. Linux is different. Saying "I know linux" generally means you know how to administer it - not how to code in every language available to it. When looking for a coding job - they hire based on what language you know - not what OS. For zope, you will just have to "know zope" - employers will see "zope" and a language just like parents see "understanding computers" as knowing how to fix their windows boxes :) We have a lot of former perl coders here and they won't be able to resist the new fancy perl methods. And within a short while we will have a body code dung. Perhaps this is a disadvantage to the DC company-owned open-source project model. They will make bad decisions based on potential profit. XEmacs has managed to fend of perl (and python) support. I have heard close to the same argument there that I have made here, basically. Another language adds little benefit and much complexity for someone who will have to maintain code on the platform. I don't buy this bit about being able to access 1000's of wonderful perl modules. Most people that I know who have made the switched at how much better the python library is the perl's. ^Roman Sorry for being a tad emotional here. I'm sure I will calm down - it's just that yesterday I was one of the most adamant Zope evangelist around. Today...

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monitoring Zope with daemontools
by Frank Tegtmeyer 26 May '00

26 May '00

About two months ago there was a discussion about monitoring the Zope processes. Someone mentioned daemontools of Daniel J. Bernstein. Because I use daemontools for several other applications I tried it with Zope too. See my article at http://www.lightwerk.de/zope/monitoring if you are interested for "how to set up and use" this combination. Regards, Frank

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Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed
by Roman Milner 26 May '00

26 May '00

>>>>> "KM" == Ken Manheimer <klm(a)digicool.com> writes: KM> I have some misgivings with this outlook. It sounds like KM> people who seek job security by having expertise with a system KM> that closes out unfamiliar options - whether the options are KM> better or worse. I'm not in any way unfamiliar with perl. If this had been a language that I didn't know or, or any technology that I didn't know - I would have an opened mind. I've been down the perl road, and have made a personal choice never to do it again. KM> For all of you that love Python, and testify to either leaving KM> perl with great relief or not being willing to learn it in the KM> first place - why don't you trust your judgement? Python KM> *does* offer better a better foundation for persistence, KM> acquisition, general object-oriented applications, etc - you KM> should not be frightened of a level, open zope playing field KM> that admits both python and perl! Yes, *I* should. I'm trying to make the point that it's nieve to believe that I will be able to just ignore the perl bits. Yes, I can avoid writing anything original in perl but sooner or later, if I'm working with zope, I will be asked to do something with one of the perl methods. They are going to be prevalent and hard to avoid. So, if my goal is to entirely avoid maintaining perl code, I will have to avoid Zope. KM> I never really learned C - but that doesn't mean i won't use KM> other people's C extensions! Many many people have found KM> Python to be the best way to get acquainted with Java, with KM> jpython - and i wonder how many java folks got turned on to KM> python's advantages, though the ability to use java KM> interactively via jpython. Access to other languages via KM> python isn't a problem, it's a solution - why should it be any KM> different with Zope? I wouldn't mind using someone else's perl module either. But it just isn't going to be limited to that. Developers get hit by buses, and managers assign the code to other people. I think that anyone who wants to claim Zope expertise will need to know and be willing to code in perl. ^Roman

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E-Commerce solution using Python and Zope.
by Jilani Khaldi 26 May '00

26 May '00

Hi All, do you know about something written in Python & Zope for e-commerce solutions? Thanks. Jilani -- <jk> ___________________________________________________ http://space.tin.it/scuola/jkhaldi FreeBSD ~ The Power To Serve

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Help with simple dtml-if compare
by Patrick J.M. Keane 26 May '00

26 May '00

Bug? Or am I missing something. Create a default document called 'index_html', with these contents: <dtml-var standard_html_header> <dtml-if "id == 'index_html'"> index_html == <dtml-var id> <dtml-else> index_html != <dtml-var id> </dtml-if> <dtml-var standard_html_footer> Basically, we're comparing the document id -- "index_html" to the string "index_html". If you run it, the results say: index_html != index_html Why is that?? Any help? Ideas? Thanks PK

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GUF and userList problems
by Mabe, Brad 26 May '00

26 May '00

Greetings, I am having problems with GUF authentication after including a call to a sql method from within the GUF supplied userList method. I have GUF installed correctly, and able to authenticate from a static list of users I created in the userList method. When I attempt to call a sql method from within userList, all authentications fail. Even for the list of static users. My sql method, "SQL_get_users", is very simple: select user_account from user My modified userList Method is as follows: <dtml-in SQL_get_users> <dtml-var user_account> </dtml-in> jorge fred mongo I have verified that the sql method returns users by selecting the "User_list" tab from within the acl_users folder. I have tried numerous things, but I cannot get any of the users to authenticate after adding the <dtml-in> statement. If I comment out the <dtml-in> statement, the users jorge, fred, and mongo can once again authenticate. At first I thought maybe one of the sql method supplied users was conflicting with either jorge, fred, or mongo in some way so I took out the <dtml-var user_account> line, essentially calling the sql method but not returning anything from it. Still couldn't authenticate anyone. Has anyone been successful in getting GUF userList to work with a sql method? I have read through hippys how-to and think I have done everything he has suggested. Systems specifics are: Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 server, service pack 5 Zope version 2.1.6 GUF version 1.2.2 Microsoft Access 2000 Any help at this point will be appreciated. I'm really pulling my hair out over this. -=Brad=-

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Add property ?
by calvin33 26 May '00

26 May '00

Normally : "folder_F.object_O.manage_addProperty(id,file,content_type)" How to change "object_O" with another variable "var_V" ?

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Re: ANN: Perl for Zope
by Sin Hang Kin 26 May '00

26 May '00

Oh no!!! Zope by itself is bad enough. Do pull in more trouble. Zope needed to clean up before it goes too bad. Zope is powerful, but is already too difficult for beginner to learn. It is not easy to do simple things, I think this will destroy zope because It will bring in more different syntax, inconsistent implementation. Recently, there is a lots of things happening in zope, some is deeply in the root, like security, zodb, patterns, zcatalogue. If perl is going to be enter zope, couldnt it wait a bit after you clean up zope a little bit. Re-write dtml syntax and make zope dtml more easy to learn. I think that will be a bigger userbase than those perl wizzard. rgs, kentsin

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zdconfera - where is it?
by Phil Langton 26 May '00

26 May '00

I've been using Confera but want to get email notification working. In desperation I've downloaded and installed ZDiscussions 2.0 and ZDbase, zDiscussions and ZDConfera 1.0.0. The ZDiscussion is working but no option for email notification (although I like it). BUT no sign of ZDConfera! Instead I have 2 'Confera Topic' objects??? 1. Where is ZDConfera? 2. Apart from Squishdot, is there a simpe Zope discussion board that has email notification? Please help Phil Langton =============================================================== Phil Langton. Dept. Physiology, School of Medical Sciences, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1TD Tel: 44 (117) 928-8923; Fax: 44 (117) 928-8923 http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Physiology/Staff/PDL/web_pdl.htm "But what....is it good for" (Engineer with the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM refering to the microchip in 1968) ===============================================================

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Re: [Zope] ANN: Perl For Zope
by Karl Anderson 26 May '00

26 May '00

mindlace <mindlace(a)imeme.net> writes: > If it helps any, it should be obvious by now that zope is from the emacs > school and not the vi school. Check out the flamefest on comp.emacs a few years ago when someone tried to introduce rudimentary perl scripting support to emacs. Very similar to this one (but in that case, the perl-adding camp was clearly sick and wrong). -- Karl Anderson karl(a)digicool.com

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