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Re: [Zope] Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
by Martijn Jacobs 28 Nov '07

28 Nov '07

Hi Martijn and others. > I don't see anything I like better, but have a nagging worry that > Zope, and especially Zope 2, may become increasingly neglected as > time goes by. I have to say +1 on this one. We still use Zope 2 for most of our projects, as the software is stable, mature and if you know how it works you can do anyhting with it, and you can do it very fast. I'm very pleased that some older products (including our own) from 5 or 6 year ago still work in the latest zope version, sometimes with some minor adjustments. But the core of Zope 2 has changed a lot, while still being compatible as much as possible. I think the Zope 2 developers and release manager(s) deserve a lot of credits and respect for that. But it's since Five that there is some active development happening on this platform. (And offcourse not to forget the need for Plone to have zope3 technologies available). Cleanup and some refactoring has been done, and some Products are now part of the core. You an find most of the documentation in interfaces files right now which is a good thing offcourse, and you can use zope3 technologies if you like, a much cleaner way of development then old skool Zope 2 products. I don't think the problem is activity on the Zope 2 front itself, but the community website zope.org which should convey this message of a mature Zope 2 platform with the availability of new technologies. But now it's a dead, outdated website which I think is sad because it's not reflecting what is actually happening. > This sounds like something that could be potentially interesting > for new new zope.org, which is currently in development So that's why I mention this quote : Martijn, I'm very curious about the status, plan or purpose of the new zope.org? I think if the new site gets rid of all the outdated stuff, learn from the plone.org website (or even use it as a boiler plate, they really did a great job I think), include some nice documentation based on tutorials like http://slinkp.com/~paul/pycon_2006/z2/notes.html and http://plone.org/documentation/tutorial/five-zope3-walkthrough, for example (Phillip has some nice tutorials as well) it would feel so much better for all the Zope 2 developers who are still out there, and for the new developers who want to use it, but now have the feeling that Zope 2 is a dead end. -- Martijn Jacobs Four Digits, Internet Solutions a: Willemsplein 15-1 6811 KB Arnhem NL e-mail: martijn(a)fourdigits.nl | web: http://www.fourdigits.nl tel: +31 (0)26 44 22 700 | fax: +31 (0)84 22 06 117

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Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, Django, CherryPy
by Rene B 28 Nov '07

28 Nov '07

I'm frustrated trying to select a python web framework. I’ve researched quite a few. CherryPy,Karrigell,Zope 2,3,Grok, Gluon,Django,Mod_Python. I’ve also looked at templating languages like Spyce, and Cheetah. I’m beginning to think there’s nothing out there for a newbie python programmer like myself. I’m a Network Admin that likes programming but doesn’t have the time to get really proficient at it. I selected Python as a language of choice and that’s all I’ve used. I’ve written a few scripts . I’m interested in building dynamic web sites but I tell you it’s impossible to select a tool. I’ve researched all the tools mentioned above. The most important thing in my decision is that I know some Python and want to use it to build the dynamic site. I don’t want to learn a new language to do that. ZPT is a new language. Its not python. Not even close. Out of all the ones I’ve researched I like Zope 2 the best. Not sure why. I want some thing easy. I like DTML. It’s easy. I know why ZPT has it’s advantages but for ease of use it doesn’t come close to DTML. Most people like me wont be building complex web sites and I’d be the only working on it meaning I’ll do the HTML layout and code the dynamic portions of it. So I don’t’ need to worry about an HTML editor getting confused with the dynamic languages mixed in blah blah blah. I’m afraid to learn Zope 2 because I have no idea what direction it’s going in. Not to mention I don’t particularly like ZPT. I’ve read DTML isn’t going anywhere but I don’t imagine I’ll get much support on it when needed and I’m sure people will be telling me to use ZPT cause DTML is dead. Funny, I read something while reading news about Grok’s new plugins for any template language . They used Genshi as an example and talked about template languages and which one is better etc.. The bottom line was "use the one that you like". So I wish people would stop putting down DTML or others over the one they prefer and continue to help those regardless of which they choose. Back to trying to choose. I think Django is too hard. I like Mod_python with PSP. PSP seems to be more python like then anything I’ve seen. Yet Mod_Python has terrible docs for people like me and it doesn't seem to popular. The other frameworks have some good ideas. I like Karrigell but you just don’t know how long it will be supported.Gluon is cool but its new. Zope 3 is out of the question. Grok looks to me like another CherryPy. It may be easier the Zope 3 but it’s not easier then Zope 2. Plus I’ve yet to get it installed on my windows XP to play. I like cheetah as a tool. There docs are not that great and not many examples. Plus no auto generated content like you get in Zope 2. Yes some magic is good. The CRUD is what made Rails over rated to start out with.People like some magic. saves time. Combining Cheetah and Zope sounds interesting to me. So what do I do. I like Zope 2. I can’t find any books on it released after 2002. Plone is tooo much. There aren’t any new products out for Zope 2 and the ones that are there haven’t been touched for years. Zope 2 wiki seems dead. I was looking the other day for some type of auto CRUD for Zope 2. couldn’t find anyting. No one seems to be adding anything new to Zope 2 which scares me the most. If I take the time to learn a tool I want to make sure it’s going to be around for awhile and have good support and new addons being added all of the time to help me.

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Re: [Zope] Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
by Aaron Maupin 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Rene B <rb2.net(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I'm beginning to think there's nothing out there for a newbie python > programmer like myself. I'm a Network Admin that likes programming but > doesn't have the time to get really proficient at it. ... > Out of all the ones I've researched I like > Zope 2 the best. Not sure why. I want some thing easy. I like DTML. It's > easy. I know why ZPT has it's advantages but for ease of use it doesn't come > close to DTML. Most people like me wont be building complex web sites and I'd > be the only working on it meaning I'll do the HTML layout and code the dynamic > portions of it. So I don't' need to worry about an HTML editor getting > confused with the dynamic languages mixed in blah blah blah. Then your search is over. Just use Zope 2. I'm in almost exactly your position. I learned DTML because at the time the Zope tutorials all taught it first (they probably still do), and since I'm never going to be editing code except by hand, I don't worry about DTML tags getting messed up. Also, unless something has changed you need to use DTML somewhat for ZSQL methods. And anything that's tricky to do in DTML/ZPT should probably be in a Python script anyway. Frankly, I've created half a dozen Zope sites over the last four years, two of them fairly active medium-sized sites ( letsdating.jp and gamesocks.com ), and Zope is basically just a fancy-pants container for my Python scripts. It works beautifully. I know I'm not using the "full power" of Zope, but as a container for Python scripts and with the power of acquisition - one of my absolute favorite aspects of Zope 2 - it makes development a snap. Aaron

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Re: Escaping special characters in ZCTextIndex.QueryParser?
by Dieter Maurer 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Please stay on the list! Readded... Robert Casties wrote at 2007-11-27 09:47 +0100: > ... >Is the parser for the search query also pluggable? I will have another >look at TextIndexNG. You should look at "TextIndexNG3". There, you can specify lots of things either globally through ZCML, in the index during creation and passed as parameter. For the query search parser, you have at least the later two options. -- Dieter

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Bus error
by Ben Bartrum 26 Nov '07

26 Nov '07

I'm recreating a Zope site from a SunOS server on FreeBSD. Zope starts but as soon as anything is accessed (including the ZMI), it bombs out with just: LOG('ZODB', WARNING, 'Could not import class %s ' Bus error I rsynced the ZOPE_HOME from the SunOS server. Could it be that there are things in the ZOPE_HOME that are compiled for SunOS? However, I have done this successfully for another version of Zope. The only thing you can access (provided you access it before anything else) is the DeadlockDebugger , which then doesn't show the normal 4 threads - it only shows: Threads traceback dump at 2007-11-26 17:00:02 End of dump ____________________________________________________________ FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth

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dtml-tree - change icons
by Ulla Theiss 23 Nov '07

23 Nov '07

Hello list, we are using the dtml-tree - and we need other pictures for the plus and the minus symbol. How can we change them? Can anybody help us? Many thanks in advance, Ulla.

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server slowed down to a crawl
by Ben Bartrum 22 Nov '07

22 Nov '07

I have a fairly old Zope server that has slowed down to the point where loading the ZMI doesn't complete and some pages load in > 25 secs while other pages don't load at all. There has been recent cosmetic changes, but they worked for a day or so before the slowdown. There is nothing new or unusual in the event log and traffic to the server is minimal (probably because it has been unusable for a day). The Data.fs is about 500 mb. I am fairly certain that I have eliminated all operating system factors, and I am at a loss as to what I can do next without a ZMI. Any suggestions welcome. ____________________________________________________________ Receive Notifications of Incoming Messages Easily monitor multiple email accounts & access them with a click. Visit http://www.inbox.com/notifier and check it out!

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Re: [Zope] AJAX copy/paste
by Jaroslav Lukesh 21 Nov '07

21 Nov '07

You need to find how to use cookies with ajax. Another possibility is to write method or script which will make copy/paste for you programatically. Why you think that hidden frame ----- Original Message ----- From: Garito Sorry but perhaps as second options, Jaroslav I prefer to wait if someone could send another answer more zope way and this kind of hacks seems dangerous to me. Anyway, sonner or later I'll inspect the history issue with AJAX ( http://blogs.pathf.com/agileajax/2007/09/really-simple-h.html as a library example) and they use hidden frames and things like this to solve this problems and then you way don't seems as "bad" to me I think another way could be don't send the copy and then the paste action and send a copy/paste action with the urls of the original object and the final destination but it doesn't like so much to me too Any ideas? (Thanks, Jaroslav!) 2007/11/21, Jaroslav Lukesh <lukesh(a)seznam.cz>: Hi, try to use hidden frame instead of ajax - it is similar technology as ajax, but it is ajax's precedensor. Regards, JL. ----- Original Message ----- From: Garito I'm trying to do an AJAX copy/paste action but zope raises this: The data in the clipboard could not be read, possibly due to cookie data being truncated by your web browser. Try copying fewer objects. How can solve this issue?

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AJAX copy/paste
by Garito 21 Nov '07

21 Nov '07

Hi! I'm trying to do an AJAX copy/paste action but zope raises this: The data in the clipboard could not be read, possibly due to cookie data being truncated by your web browser. Try copying fewer objects. How can solve this issue? Thanks! -- Mis Cosas http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito

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Escaping parens for ZCTextIndex?
by Robert Casties 20 Nov '07

20 Nov '07

Hi List, I have a full text index, created using a custom splitter, that contains words with parens inside e.g. "3(u@c)" (n.b. it's from cuneiform tablets). Now I want to search for these words in the index but I am unable to get the parens in the query to get past the QueryParser which flags the expression as an error. Is there a way to do either escape the parens or bypass the QueryParser? Thanks Robert

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