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re. WebDav wishful thinking WEBCR ideas.questions
by Jerry.Spicklemire＠IFLYATA.COM 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

The point of ultra simple syntax (such as in the Rebol examples) and the potential impact on ease of use is directly related to a very brief exchange I've had recently with a couple of Zope fans. I made a post to this list asking for feedback about Rules Based Systems, and Natural Language. Wouldn't it be great to give users an expression builder that could help them create sentences that would in turn be directly interpreted by the engine behind the interface? It's tough to think of a simpler way to ask a cumputer to do what you want. It's even harder to imagine any system / community better able to deliver than Zope!

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RE: [Zope] WebDav wishful thinking WEBCR ideas.questions
by Brian Lloyd 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

> ..I think I just got a healthy mental kick in the right > dirction by looking > at the Rebol site http://www.rebol.com > > For example looking at http://www.rebol.com/examples.html > > item #1 Fetch a web page and send it as email. [1 line Rebol script] > "send luke(a)rebol.com read http://www.rebol.com" > > What would it take to integrate this kind of proweful clarity > into Zope.DTML ? I hadn't looked at Rebol before today. My impression (FWIW): while I'll agree that your example above is exceptionally clear, that clarity also degrades as the logic becomes more complex. This is not to make a judgement on Rebol necessarily - I think that this is an issue in _any_ language or environment. Before you know it, people will have moved beyond: "send luke(a)rebol.com read http://www.rebol.com" to need: "send luke(a)rebol.com read http://www.rebol.com but only if he's allowed to see it and only if its sunday and oh yeah convert it to multi-part while you're at it" >From what I saw of Rebol, the end result would be significantly uglier than my contrived example above :) Again, that's not to bash Rebol in any way - I'm certain that the equivalent DTML is just as or even more ugly. Complexity just naturally grows in step with flexibility. A lot of this really goes back to the root question of "what is DTML really for?", which I won't go into at length (there have been several threads about it lately). I would, however, suggest that in many ways the use of External Methods or Python Methods is the natural and Pythonic way to deal with reducing complexity (at least apparent complexity from the point of view of the DTML user). While there is no equivalent to your send-page example implemented as a simple embedded DTML command, it is pretty easy to hide that complexity behind External Methods or Python Methods that implement those "commands": <dtml-call "send_page_to_someone('luke(a)rebol.com', 'http://rebol.com')"> I'll be the first to admit that this is not quite as pretty, but it is not unreasonably ugly. > How could Zope use Rebol or a rebol-like python external > method to best > effect? > any ideas? I don't quite understand this - by this do you mean some kind of object like an external method but that could be written in Rebol? If so, that wouldn't really fix the DTML ugliness problem would it? You'd still have to say something like: <dtml-call "send_page_to_someone('luke(a)rebol.com', 'http://rebol.com')"> ...even if the actual work was done in a different language wouldn't you? Perhaps I'm missing your point though. Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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RE: [Zope] Zope stability
by Michel Pelletier 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Itamar Shtull-Trauring [mailto:itamars@ibm.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 4:07 PM > To: Michel Pelletier; zope(a)zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope stability > > Where can I find it? Part of Zope? Can't seem to find in my > install. > this'd be really useful (well, I could use the Zope logs, but > this looks > cleaner.) It is written by Jeff Bauer, who also did PCGI. It is in $ZOPE_HOME/pcgi > > And is any of this documented anywhere? I keep on hearing > about all this > cool stuff - manage_debug, Creosote, HelpSys (well, it's old > and buggy, but > it still works in 2.1 for some reason.) > > For example, in the last five minutes, I discovered: > 1. Zope can write tar files - for product distribution or something? Yep. > 2. http://192.168.1.2:8080/Control_Panel/manage_profile Yeah that's another little hidden beauty. Both 'manage_debug' and 'manage_profile' have been hidden from view, I don't know the reason why. I think it would be a good idea to show these links in the control panel if ZOPE_DEBUG_MODE is on. -Michel

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RE: [Zope] WebDav wishful thinking WEBCR ideas.questions
by Jason Cunliffe 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

At 10:44 06/12/99 -0500, Brian Lloyd wrote: >> I confess I don't understand this WebDav stuff yet. But [snipp snip] >WebDAV really doesn't have anything to do with those sort of >things - it is really a "content management protocol" in that >it lets you treat certain Zope objects as if they were files >on a remote filesystem from a WebDAV-enabled client. It doesn't >really have anything to do with the sort of visual page building >ideas you are asking about. You can find out more about what DAV >is and is not from www.webdav.org. Thanks. helpful A quote from http://www.rediff.com/computer/1999/sep/29carl.htm "I cannot see languages like C++, Java, or PERL taking us to the stars. Object-oriented programming is not the answer. I can truly say this because I've been involved in object-oriented programming since the beginning. It does not increase productivity. It does not give better results. The answer to our problems rests in the natural characteristics of language and expression, not in objects." ..I think I just got a healthy mental kick in the right dirction by looking at the Rebol site http://www.rebol.com For example looking at http://www.rebol.com/examples.html item #1 Fetch a web page and send it as email. [1 line Rebol script] "send luke(a)rebol.com read http://www.rebol.com" What would it take to integrate this kind of proweful clarity into Zope.DTML ? How could Zope use Rebol or a rebol-like python external method to best effect? any ideas? - Jason ------------------------------------------------- Jason Cunliffe <jasonic(a)nomadicsltd.com> NOMADICS.STUDIO(Design Director) Geo-Digital Arts and Technology Le Vieux Moulin, Route de Mons 83440 SEILLANS, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)4 94.76.98.72 Fax: +33 (0)4 94.76.97.77

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RE: [Zope] I need advice
by Chris McDonough 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

The ZOBDC driver is the preferred method, I would say. I tested the DC Sybase DA 2.0 (not the "old" ZSybase DA) against SQL Server 6.5 and it seems to work fine. Caveat emptor, however, because the Sybase adapter doesn't seem to work against SQL Server 7.0, though we didn't put much effort into researching how this could be overcome. BTW, don't tell me you work for a company named "mylinuxisp" and you're going to run it on NT... oh god, the irony! Chris McDonough mailto:chrism@digicool.com Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com Publishers of Zope http://www.zope.org > -----Original Message----- > From: technology(a)mylinuxisp.com [mailto:technology@mylinuxisp.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 2:53 PM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] I need advice > > > Hey guys: > > > We are setting up a mysql database on linux for testing. > However, I may be > forced to go woth microsoft sqlserver. What Z da will I use > for sqlserver. I > searched the zope site but found little. This question is for > sqlserver > version 6.6 and 7.0 just to be safe. Is the Z OBDC da the one to use? > I read it is win32 only so my zope would sit behind iis. > > Are there other Z da's to use? I did read the sybase should work with > sqlserver 6.5? is this true? > > thanks cwj > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > No cross posts or HTML encoding! > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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dtml-in question
by Joshua Brauer 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

Two questions: 1) I've got a photo album online and I'd like to pre-load the next image. The "Album" is a dtml-in that iterates over a folder of images, but I can't find any way to get the next image to load (I thought of two images per batch, but I want the next image to be a dot (1 pixel by 1 pixel) so I can't treat all images in the batch the same way). 2) I've set the title and ID of each image to be the same so that I can use <dtml-var title> as a part of the URL (IMG SRC=<dtml-var title>). When I use ID instead of title this property is blank... Is there a simpler way to get the ID so I don't have to duplicate the data? <dtml-in "objectItems(['Image'])" next size=1 start=qs orphan=1 sort="monthorder"> <dtml-in next-batch> <IMG SRC="monthPhoto/<dtml-var title>" HEIGHT="<dtml-var batch-start-var-height>" width="<dtml-var batch-start-var-width>"> </dtml-in> </dtml-in> (the "Album" is online now, by the way.... http://imh.wwe.com/calendar2000/) # # # _____________________________________________ Joshua Brauer Box 915 http://www.brauer.org Fort Collins, CO 80522 Fax: (419) 793-4120 _____________________________________________ In flying I have learned that carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks. -- Wilbur Wright in a letter to his father, September 1900 ____________________________________________________

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I need advice
by technology＠mylinuxisp.com 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

Hey guys: We are setting up a mysql database on linux for testing. However, I may be forced to go woth microsoft sqlserver. What Z da will I use for sqlserver. I searched the zope site but found little. This question is for sqlserver version 6.6 and 7.0 just to be safe. Is the Z OBDC da the one to use? I read it is win32 only so my zope would sit behind iis. Are there other Z da's to use? I did read the sybase should work with sqlserver 6.5? is this true? thanks cwj

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RE: [Zope] ZClass class attributes
by Michel Pelletier 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: itamar(a)attable.com [mailto:itamar@attable.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 1:42 PM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] ZClass class attributes > > > How can I add / access class properties of a ZClass? I want an > attribute that all instances can access and can be changed in one > central location for all of them - a property of the ZClass itself, > basically. So how can this be done? Well, you can create attributes of classes, that's the objects that all the instances share (if it's defined in the ZClass) or objects that specific instances can contain (if that specific instance is an ObjectManager). The answer your question though, I don't think ZClasses can have shared instance Zope properties. You can allways provide an interface though with DTML methods (this might prove cleaner also if you just define an interface). -Michel

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RE: [Zope] ZClass class attributes
by Michel Pelletier 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Janko Hauser [mailto:jhauser@ifm.uni-kiel.de] > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 7:17 AM > To: itamars(a)ibm.net > Cc: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] ZClass class attributes > > > I think you can add a DTML-Document with properties to the ZClass. I > have the experience that I can change the DD and all instances see > this. Probably this is also true for the properties of the DD. Yep. All instances share that method and its contents and properties. if you want instances to not have a method as a class attribute, but rather as a contained object that is different per instance, make the class an ObjectManager so that it is a container. -Michel

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update on zope-edu
by Timothy Wilson 07 Dec '99

07 Dec '99

Hello everyone, Though I would provide a quick update on the progress of the brand-new Zope in education SIG. A lot has happened since it was announce here yesterday. Yesterday morning there were 5 or 6 subscribers to zope-edu. At last count there were 49 this morning. There is obviously some interest in this area. Much of the discussion so far has naturally centered on design issues and information about existing Zope projects. Several people have mentioned that they plan emulate the features of the commercial products that are currently available (there are more than I thought). So far, http://www.blackboard.com/ seems to be the consensus favorite. All of the commercial systems are quite expensive and difficult to customize because they are proprietary. A Zope product would obviously address those problems quite nicely. Others have been discussing the need for a system that teachers and students could use without extensive training. If it isn't easy, it won't get used. Finally, a number of posters have discussed the need for some sort of framework that would guide development of products that they would be guaranteed to work well together. Some sort of "Web site in a box" with customizability would be just the ticket. Schools could add features as they needed them and would be able to store the student data in the ZODB or an external DB. Alan P. registered the domain zschool.org and offered to host a site for the group. I'm sure there will be much more discussion about that in the days ahead. That's a very cursory update on our progress over the last day or so. You can join the action by subscribing to the zope-edu list. Send a 'subscribe zope-edu' message to majordomo(a)sicfa.org and you'll be all set. -Tim -- Timothy Wilson | "The faster you | Check out: Henry Sibley H.S. | go, the shorter | http://slashdot.org/ W. St. Paul, MN, USA | you are." | http://linux.com/ wilson(a)visi.com | -Einstein | http://www.mn-linux.org/

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