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I give up - I want BUY Zope consulting
by Samu Mielonen 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

Hullo, I've been fighting with Zope for two months now. I stumble with the most basic things even though I've ready EVERY single piece of documentation 100 times. I can't even do simple things like: if X=Z then Z=C call that method render this object using this format else if .. :( and to think that I've studied computer science, programmed several languages and thought I understood Zope's principles :) I stumble on syntax, I get error messages that I just can't parse, I can't find examples to do the simplest things, it took me 8 hours to implement a Finnish date/time standard (and I had to make 5 different variable calls for that)... ...the list is endless. I'm just too stupid for Zope. Anyway, I've been reading this list closely and I would still like to *use* Zope, even if I can't *develop* it myself. Therefor, I'm asking: What's the proper way to solicit offers for Zope consulting and development? I have a *very* basic site I want to build that includes: - Supporting journalist, editor, designer, anon & manager roles - Submitting small news articles with multiple categories via forms + preferably via WebDAV (journalist) - Submitting multipage articles with embedded pictures + videoclips (journalist) - Editing and approving news/articles for publication (editor) - Designing page looks, layout, skins, etc. (designer) - Managing specific folders, users, etc. (manager) - Publishing articles based on category, date and approval - Viewing published contents (anon) - Discussing articles (anon) (I have other ideas, but the above is the core I want) Now, I thought this would be simple as anything. As a matter of fact, I was able to set up Squishdot in 30 minutes, but it didn't too half the things I needed and I didn't know how to modify it. Then I tried KM|Net News and it did most things, but I stumbled on modifying again. Now, don't get me wrong. Both are (IMHO) fine tools and the authors were very helpful. The problem is I. I just can't grok Zope, it's syntax, it's documentation nor it's examples. So, any takers for such a project? I would need the above site ready last week :) and I don't roll around in cash, but I'm willing to sell myself for pennies just to get it done. Any offers or suggestions (other than those meant for general consumption) should be directed to ex(a)uiah.fi. I'm flexible with time table and everything. I just want this done... <sniff> :) Best regards, Samu Mielonen PS This would be an open source project. I pay for it and then it's GPL'ed once it's done and it can be used by other than just Zope Gurus. A product like this is SORELY needed out there - a digital printing press+editorial office combined if you will. I would have done it myself, but I'm too stupid :( -- "Our reflections on the order of society, as well as nature, are still dominated by the Newtonian image of massive power, exerted by sovereign agency through the operation of central force..." -Stephen Toulmin, "Cosmopolis"

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How is registration done at zope.org ?
by Don Porter 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

I'm working my way through starting to learn Zope. I'm finding it a challenge, most likely since I have no experience with Python. I'm reading what documentation I can find (and hoping it isn't out of date -- a Newbie Roadmap would be a very good thing). And I'm using the DTML Source links on zope.org to see examples of Zope in action. When I try to visit http://www.zope.org/Register/register/view_source I get an error. I'd like to see the DTML Method which processes registration, so I can learn how to do something similar in my own Zope project. Any hints? -- | Don Porter dgporter(a)erols.com | | "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!" | | -- Adam West as BATMAN | |______________________________________________________________________|

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re Zope's problerm?
by Victor Zhai 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

Hi, When I creat zope products with zclasses, First I create a product and with the specified name: "HRsystem" under the directory of Control_Panel/Products Folder. Then Click "Add" and then "Generate", Go to "HTsystem" Product Folder and create a ZClass by selecting "Z Class" form the product add list. I select all of the "Base classes" that listed .... Then when I want to add a instance of "HRsystem" under /Victor directory.Zope give some errors like this: Zope Error Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource. Error Type: TypeError Error Value: argument name was ommitted Troubleshooting Suggestions The URL may be incorrect. The parameters passed to this resource may be incorrect. A resource that this resource relies on may be encountering an error. For more detailed information about the error, please refer to the HTML source for this page. If the error persists please contact the site maintainer. Thank you for your patience. ---------- But when I select none of the base classes.It work properly.. regards Victor zhai "WorldSecure Server <ogilvy.com>" made the following annotations on 09/28/99 23:00:51 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the Ogilvy Group shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ==============================================================================

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Zope's problerm?
by Victor Zhai 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

Hi, When I creat zope products with zclasses, First I create a product and with the specified name: "HRsystem" under the directory of Control_Panel/Products Folder. Then Click "Add" and then "Generate", Go to "HTsystem" Product Folder and create a ZClass by selecting "Z Class" form the product add list. I select all of the "Base classes" that listed .... Then when I want to add a instance of "HRsystem" under /Victor directory.Zope give some errors like this: Zope Error Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource. Error Type: TypeError Error Value: argument name was ommitted Troubleshooting Suggestions The URL may be incorrect. The parameters passed to this resource may be incorrect. A resource that this resource relies on may be encountering an error. For more detailed information about the error, please refer to the HTML source for this page. If the error persists please contact the site maintainer. Thank you for your patience. regards Victor zhai "WorldSecure Server <ogilvy.com>" made the following annotations on 09/28/99 22:58:29 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the Ogilvy Group shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ==============================================================================

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Re: [Zope] Really Dumb Question...
by Kevin Dangoor 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

-----Original Message----- From: Samuel A. Falvo II <kc5tja(a)dolphin.openprojects.net> To: zope(a)zope.org <zope(a)zope.org> Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 8:04 PM Subject: [Zope] Really Dumb Question... >Is there a way to edit Python code file://in Zope itself// yet? I'm currently >using an External Method, and it works just dandy. I love the ability. But >having to rlogin to the server (or Telnet, i fyou prefer), changing to >/usr/local/zope/Extensions, and use a manual text editor is a bit tedious. This is what the Evan Simpson's PythonMethod http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/PythonMethod does. It is not the same as External Methods though, because PythonMethods have the same kind of restrictions that DTML does... unless you feel comfortable enough flipping a switch in the code. Most people on the list seem to feel that through-the-web editing of arbitrary python is dangerous. Kevin

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Re: [Zope] I give up - I want BUY Zope consulting
by Kevin Dangoor 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

-----Original Message----- From: Pavlos Christoforou <pavlos(a)gaaros.msrc.sunysb.edu> To: Samu Mielonen <ex(a)uiah.fi> Cc: zope(a)zope.org <zope(a)zope.org> Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] I give up - I want BUY Zope consulting >On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Samu Mielonen wrote: > > >> and to think that I've studied computer science, programmed >> several languages and thought I understood Zope's principles :) > >From your post I gathered that you are not a Python programmer. So much of >Zope relies on python that I believe if you give python a fair chance a >lot of things will become clearer. Do not forget that DTML Methods etc >were meant for simple things. More complex situations (like the one you >descripe) are so much easier in external methods or products. Though I like working with ZClasses, I would have to agree with you. When things get much beyond a "Document Template" sort of requirement, working in python seems to be much more efficient. And the nice thing is that you can still use ZClasses to allow for easy, user-defined sorts of properties. If it weren't for the fact that *all* of my cycles have been taken up lately, I would probably be interested in contributing to a News tool that meets most news site requirements... Kevin

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RE: [Zope] Allaire Spectra
by Ceska, Christopher 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

I am involved with Spectra beta testing, I will say this much, there is very little technical documentation for spectra, 150% less than zope... They have a really jazzy website, and some great marketing materials which made us very interested in it, but when it comes to getting something built, it would take us way more time to develope in Spectra than in Zope, PHP3, or ColdFusion. -chris -----Original Message----- From: Jay, Dylan [mailto:djay@lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 7:20 PM To: 'Brian Lloyd'; 'chas'; Zope Mailing List (E-mail) Subject: RE: [Zope] Allaire Spectra > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Lloyd [mailto:Brian@digicool.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 00:03 > To: 'chas'; Zope Mailing List (E-mail); 'Jay, Dylan' > Subject: RE: [Zope] Allaire Spectra > > I think that this is an important thread - while we do not > necessarily want to compete with every other product in the > marketplace on a feature-by-feature basis, it _is_ important > to keep an eye on the competition and to learn from both their > successes and failures. > > Zopistas with significant experience using other systems are > invaluable in this process - you have enough of a foot in both > worlds to give informed feedback as to what we can learn from > the other guys out there. > > The main general points I see above: > > o short learning curve, quick tutorials and productivity > > o very good docs/organization/presentation > > ...are things that (believe me) we have been hearing loud and > clear for a while now. We (and the Zopista community) have been > focusing a lot of effort on HowTos, better documentation and > improving zope.org as a learning resource to make progress on > these concerns. That doesn't mean that the problem is solved, > of course, but the community as a whole is certainly aware of > it and taking action. > > That said, are there other particular lessons that you think we > should learn from CF/Spectra? I think one big thing you missed was marketing. Have a look at the spectra web-site. It says in very clear terms what it will give you from a buisiness point of view. Zope may have some description of its technical archetecture (which is great for those that want to cut through the BS) but this makes it a lot harder to gleam the the direct benifits of using Zope are. Things like collaborative editing, robustness from intergrated transactions etc. I'm going to give a seminar on Zope to the lucent web community (not a small thing) in a month and this what I'm going to have to do. I realized that rattling of what it is is only half effective, I have to say what it can do for people and then say how. Also, I think a good analysis of the buisness case for using Zope, esp comparing it to what the spectre rhetoric says, will hopefully make clear where Zope is falling down. For all the patting on the back everyone does Zope still has problems. It has fantastic promise and in most areas does a great job, but I think it has a long way to go before it can be said to be way ahead of the competition. Anyway, my point is that we should examine Zope from the point of view of what it offers to non technical people who can't afford to experiment. At the moment my particular headache is ZClasses. Great idea just to complicated and hard to get working. _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope (To receive general Zope announcements, see: http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce For developer-specific issues, zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

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Community Glossary
by Loren Stafford 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

On sites like www.zope.org, I think there's a need for a what might be called a "community glossary", which is what you would expect of a glossary, but has these additional characteristics: - Needed terms identified by community. - Definitions offered by community. - Review process -- there's a possibility for serious misinformation. - Individual contributions collected into single glossary view. - Searchable, of course, but an exhaustive, alphabetical lookup, not dependent on quality of a search engine. - Possibility of alternative (complementary) definitions of terms by different community members. - Similar to How-To's but tighter in scope of content and method of use. Why? When a person from one specialized background (Perl/CGI in my case) dives into the middle of a vast technical project such as Python/Zope, one of the greatest barriers to entry is the specialized terminology. For instance, I wanted to understand why my external method doesn't seem to have certain Zope objects in its namespace. My quest for knowledge let me to the Digicool papers on Acquisition and Extension Classes, where I ran across foreign terms such as "mix-in classes" and "Python extension types". Now I could guess that "extension types" are defined somewhere in the Python documentation, but I haven't a clue as to where "mix-in classes" comes from. A glossary -- a good glossary -- one that hyperlinks to the sources of the definitions -- would be a great help. I know the next comment will be "We're looking forward to seeing your forthcoming Community Glossary contributed product for Zope". Well, that won't happen for months -- not until I get up to speed on Python and Zope. I mean I still don't know "why my external method doesn't seem to have certain Zope objects in its namespace". Anybody else want to run with the idea first? Comments? Suggestions? -- Loren

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Win32 dist. - using own Python instead
by Chui.Tey＠env.qld.gov.au 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

Hi, can anyone clarify this for me please? The z2.py refers to fiddling with pythonpath but why is it necessary to add path lib/python1.5 when the win distribution places python in lib/python? <FROM z2.py> # Have to fiddle the path for win32 binary dist. # to ensure the bundled python libs are used. swhome=r'C:\Program Files\WebGalah' import sys sys.path.insert(0, '%s/lib/python' % swhome) sys.path.insert(1, '%s/lib/python1.5' % swhome) sys.path.insert(2, '%s/lib/python1.5/plat-win' % swhome) sys.path.insert(3, '%s/lib/python1.5/win32' % swhome) sys.path.insert(4, '%s' % swhome) </FROM z2.py> If I wanted to run Zope with own python should I alter these lines in addition to altering the start.bat file?

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FYI: Zope Weekly News
by Amos Latteier 29 Sep '99

29 Sep '99

Hi, This week saw Zope firing on all cylinders. Performance enhancements trickled into CVS, while Zopistas far and wide released cool new Zope stuff. * After some Apache problems last week, Zope.org seems to be running well. Zope.org now sports 50 user contributed How-Tos and 20 user contributed Zope products. Go team! http://www.zope.org/Documentation/How-To http://www.zope.org/Products * beehive released 'beehive Calendar' another cool Zope product. http://www.zope.de/software/beeCal/index_eng_html http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope-announce/1999-September/000040.html * The prolific Evan Simpson released SiteAccess 0.0.1 and PythonMethod 0.1.2. The PythonMethod product allows editing Python methods through the web, and the SiteAccess product allows virtual hosting support. http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/SiteAccess http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/PythonMethod http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/1999-September/001672.html * There was quite a bit of discussion on zope-dev about WYSIWYG tools and Zope. Dylan Jay kicked off the conversation and many others chimed in with opinions about how Zope should or could support WYSIWYG editing. http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/1999-September/001624.html * Another hot topic on zope-dev was source control and how to get access to object versions from outside ZODB. http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope/1999-September/010902.html * Jim Fulton proposed a SiteObject Zope product to allow virtual hosting from one Zope process. Lots of folks expressed opinions. There seem to be several Zope products in development along these lines already, including Adam Feuer's VirtualHostFolder and Evan Simpson's SiteAccess product. http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/1999-September/001603.html * Hugh Emberson's sqltest patch hit CVS. Here's yet another great community contribution! http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope/1999-September/010870.html * Paul Everitt announced that a Sybase level 3 database adapter is now under development. http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope/1999-September/010914.html * Chris Baron pointed out that Zope was mentioned in Infoworld as example of a Linux application server in Maggie Biggs's "Enterprise Toolbox" column. http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayNew.pl?/biggs/990920mb.htm * The ZClasses Tutorial has been updated for Zope 2.0. This tutorial is the first chapter in the forthcoming Zope Developer's Guide. http://www.zope.org:8080/Documentation/Reference/ZClasses * Pavlos Christoforou announced ZSupervisor V0.1a a utility to control ZServer. http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope/1999-September/011156.html Keep on Zopin'. -- Amos Latteier mailto:amos@digicool.com Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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