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RE: [Zope] Zope Mailing List Software is hugely inconsistent!
by Ken Manheimer 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jon S. Jaques [mailto:lists@almus.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 1:27 PM > [...] > I guess this is what I see as the stickler: To my way of thinking, when I > get messages from a list, they are "From: THE LIST". Not from users and > developers that I've never met. Doesn't that make sense? That also > encourages interaction with the list members, because a "normal" reply, from > ANY mail client, will send to ONLY the list; You must do a "reply to all" in > order to also send to the private addresses on the email. This is a Good > Thing. Well, it's funny - we've had *vigorous* argument from people on both sides on this. In fact, mailman sets the message envelope "sender" to the mailing list, which is what it's supposed to do - it is acting as a proxy for the person. However, it does *not* muck with the "from", and should never do so. In general, we feel, it's better to err on the side of caution. The way it is, when someone isn't thinking and sends a reply by reflex, it only goes to the original author. The potential loss is that something they meant to send to the list didn't go there - easy to fix. Resend including the list. The way you're suggesting, when someone makes the mistake and accidentally sends to the list when they just meant to send to the original's author, well, it's real hard to convince everyone to forget they saw what you didn't mean to send to them.-) Whoops. Often a particularly nasty whoops, since a common reason for limiting the response audience is sensitive info they don't want the wider community to see. In any case, as i indicated above, there are people who argue strongly in both directions. We can't make everyone happy. I believe what mailman does is conventionally considered the proper behavior for mailling list systems, and i don't think it's going to change. I'm not sure what's at the bottom of the header variations you're seeing - i'm not even clear anymore to which header you're referring. However, i don't think anyone often, if ever, posts directly from the mailman host system, and i do think you need to key on some different header(s) for your filtering, if that one is a problem. (As i mentioned before, i use a server-side rule which keys on the mailing list address being in the to or cc headers, and that works 99.9% of the time - the .1% it doesn't trigger is on purpose, for messages that have my address among the to or cc headers.) All that said, i wish you luck getting the filtering to work - i think the outlook/exchange filtering mechanism is a shitload harder to use effectively than it ought to be... ken klm(a)digicool.com

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RE: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] Import from Zope-1 to Zope-2
by Michel Pelletier 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Bernstein [mailto:mbernstein@profitscape.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:42 PM > To: Michel Pelletier > Cc: zope-dev(a)zope.org; zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] Import from Zope-1 to Zope-2 > > > Michel Pelletier wrote: > > > <dtml-with "_.Client.Object('http://A/YourDocument')"> > > <dtml-var id> > > </dtml-with> > > > > and print 'YourDocument'. You can pass autentication > information in to > > all of the calls to access restricted object. > > Excelent! Content and sevice syndication among Zope sites > without going through > RSS or XML-RPC! This will start a snowballing of Zopes > 'network effect' and > increase the value of belonging to the Zope 'network'. Woah! Further experimentation shows that it is not this simple, but close. There would have to be some pretty nifty abstraction code above Client to do what you want, Client isn't much more powerful than XML-RPC, if at all, it's just more Zopeish. > In fact, unless I misunderstand, this will allow Zope > applications to not only > expose services to other servers, but will allow truly > distributed applications... Yep. Note that the performance won't be all that (because it's HTTP). This also doesn't really solve the problem of transparent database replication. > Will there be a separate set of permissions to allow/deny > objects to be called > like this? No. 'Client' waddles, swims, and quacks just like a 'web browser' to Zope. If a method or object is protected by a certain permission, then the 'Client' call must supply a username and password that matches a user with a valid Role that can satisfy that permission. Just like a browser. If the server supplies a cookie, 'Client' will return it with the rest of the HTTP headers and you can store it seperatly (since 'Client' calls are stateless). > > Another no-no would be for an object to call Client on itself. I > > suspect this would cause some sort of StackOverflow > exception. I'm not > > sure how well Zope would take that kind of behavior. > > Hmm, what if you have Zope behind Apache running two or more > virtual domain names? > can they call each other using this method? As long as there is a 'stop' you can do this like any other recursive operation. By no-no I didn't mean you shouldn't do it, I meant you should be aware that it is recursive. -Michel

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Re-parsing Strings?
by John Goerzen 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

Hi, I have a situation in which I have an object that contains a text area. I'd like to be able to use <dtml-blah> tags in it. However, when I insert them, when the object is displayed, the tags are not evaluated. Is it possible to force the evaluation of these tags? Thanks, John

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RE: [Zope] RE: Two newbie questions
by Amos Latteier 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

Michael Bernstein wrote: > In any case, ZTables does indeed have the 'hierarchy' > functionality that we > want, but it has yet to be released. A related proposal > called 'Topics' popped > up on the Zope site yesterday: > http://www.zope.org:18200/Members/Amos/TopicProposal , which > seems to apply > ZTables Hierarchies to ZCatalog albeit with a somewhat > different interface. > > This is EXACTLY what I've been waiting for! I knew you guys > would get around to > it eventually. With the minor quibble that it would be nice > to have logical > operators besides 'OR' to chain queries within a Topic, this > proposal seems > perfect. Well, if you are using only one ZCatalog, you can AND queries by combining them. Then all you really lack is OR. Actually, a NOT would be pretty handy too. One concern I have is making the query building and manipulation too complex. Probably we'll start with a pretty simple scheme and expand it later. > The one thing that is unclear is whether you can set > properties on a Topic, or > if you would have to place a Document with properties on it > into the Topic. I imagine a Topic as similar to a Folder in that you can set arbitrary properties on it. > BTW, as this is so useful in contexts other than > news/informational, I propose > changing the name from Topics to 'Category' or 'ZCategory'. I agree that these are better names. Thanks for your ideas. -Amos

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RE: [Zope] Zope Mailing List Software is hugely inconsistent!
by Ken Manheimer 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

Jon S. Jaques wrote: > Does anybody know what list software Zope is using?!?!? The headers of > messages that I receive from the list are SOOOoooo inconsistent that they > have defied my filters again and again! > > If there's a moderator listening out there, please, do anything you can to > rectify this! As I am subscribed to *several* high-volume lists, it's a > serious problem when messages from the list continually land in my Inbox, > along with my business-related email. Zope.org uses mailman, of which i'm one of the core developers (though i basically haven't had time to continue with it since coming to digital creations). As far as i know mailman is RFC compliant, and in fact yours is the first complaint i've heard about being unable to filter due to inconsistent headers. (I'd be interested to see an example where the envelope sender differed.) I am *very* surprised that you're unable to make a rule that matches the [Zope] consistently. I have a suspicion that the problem, instead, is that such a match is an MS Exchange "client side" rule, which does not run when your outlook client is not running. Perhaps that accounts for the apparently unmatched items. If that's the case, i suggest concocting a rule that works client side - for exchange you have to bend over backwards a bit (and watch your rear:). For instance, if you add an entry to your address book with zope(a)zope.org email address, then you can specify that any items with to or cc headers matching that address go to some folder - that's a server side rule, and won't miss anything. If you're really convinced that mailman is doing the wrong thing, then bring it up on the mailman-developers(a)python.org mailing list. However, you may want to first check the appropriate rfc to confirm that. I believe it is correct for the mailing list mechanism to set the envelope sender to the address of the mailing list, for numerous reasons. I also believe mailman does this consistently, but would want to know if it doesn't. Ken Manheimer klm(a)digicool.com

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RE: [Zope] RE: Two newbie questions
by Michel Pelletier 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Amos Latteier [mailto:Amos@digicool.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:58 PM > To: 'Michael Bernstein' > Cc: webmaster(a)zope.org; zope(a)zope.org > Subject: RE: [Zope] RE: Two newbie questions > > > Michael Bernstein wrote: > > > In any case, ZTables does indeed have the 'hierarchy' > > functionality that we > > want, but it has yet to be released. A related proposal > > called 'Topics' popped > > up on the Zope site yesterday: > > http://www.zope.org:18200/Members/Amos/TopicProposal , which > > seems to apply > > ZTables Hierarchies to ZCatalog albeit with a somewhat > > different interface. > > > > This is EXACTLY what I've been waiting for! I knew you guys > > would get around to > > it eventually. With the minor quibble that it would be nice > > to have logical > > operators besides 'OR' to chain queries within a Topic, this > > proposal seems > > perfect. > > Well, if you are using only one ZCatalog, you can AND queries by > combining them. Then all you really lack is OR. Actually, a > NOT would be > pretty handy too. > The ZCatalog parser understands 'and' 'or' and 'andnot'. It also supports '...' which is the 'near' operator. I have not actuall tested any of this though, it all comes from legacy ZTables code. Ok, just verified that 'and' and 'or' work just dandy with Catalog. Go to the beta site and search for: 'Michel and Amos' 'Michel or Amos' and it works. Cool! andnot and '...' don't seem to do much though... > One concern I have is making the query building and manipulation too > complex. Probably we'll start with a pretty simple scheme and > expand it > later. > I like the idea of sticking with simple boolean searching. Composite booleans would be cool to: (Michel and Amos) and (Paul or Jim) For greater complexity, there are also 'quoted' queries, which means phrase matching: "eight queens" should return any phrases about the "eight queens" chess problem, and not the phrase "eight spectacular drag queens in high heels". And, of course, globbing: Mich*el Should find both 'Michel' and the incorrectly spelled 'Michael'. ;) The TextIndex parser seems to have code for parens and quotes, so it might do this, or it might at least hook it, or it may do something completly different. I'm UML modeling the Catalog as we speak. -Michel

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RE: [Zope] RE: Two newbie questions
by Ken Manheimer 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Amos Latteier [mailto:Amos@digicool.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:58 PM > Michael Bernstein wrote: > [...] > > BTW, as this is so useful in contexts other than news/informational, I propose > > changing the name from Topics to 'Category' or 'ZCategory'. > > I agree that these are better names. (I don't have a definitive objection, but would like to point out that "topic" tends more to suggest to me a hierarchy than does "category" - it seems more open to the notion of layering, which i consider a very important aspect of the topics proposal...) (ken) klm(a)digicool.com

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RE: [Zope] Import from Zope-1 to Zope-2
by Jay, Dylan 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: anders.brun(a)abc.se [mailto:anders.brun@abc.se] > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 05:24 > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Import from Zope-1 to Zope-2 > > > Hi, > > I have a site built in Zope version 1.10.2 (binary release, > python 1.5.1, linux2-x86). Now I´d like to export everything > into Zope-2. It doesn´t work using export/import ... Have > anyone experiensed anything similar? The answer is to use the upgrade utility in the utilities dir but on a related note heres another idea I had. How about a product that can mount one zope ODB into another. Using XML-RPC or something to connect the two sites togeather over the internet. It may not be fast enough for using that way but at least it would be really easy for transfering data between zope odb's.

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permission denied error accessing files on disk
by Heiko Stoermer 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

this might be off-topic, but it may as well be a zope error - I don't know. I have a Samba-share mounted and a Zope External Method which is supposed to store files on this share. The zope user has write access to the share, because if I do a "su - www-data" I can create and delete files there. Python makes no problems, either. A test script, run with the uid of the zope user, can also create and delete files there. Now if I embed this really simple code in my External Method, I get an "IOError: Permission denied" from Zope: fh = open('/BETA/test.txt','w') # BETA is the mounted share fh.write('Eat this\n') fh.close Any ideas? I've really tried everything that came to my mind, but I require that samba share to be written to (no nfs!)... Thanks in advance, Heiko -- Heiko Stoermer MIG Augsburg

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RE: Possible error in the 'Let' How-To
by Michel Pelletier 09 Sep '99

09 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Tony.McDonald(a)newcastle.ac.uk > [mailto:Tony.McDonald@newcastle.ac.uk] > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 4:09 AM > To: michel(a)digicool.com > Subject: Possible error in the 'Let' How-To > > Michel, > Many thanks for the How-Tos (they're dead useful), but I > think there's an error in the 'Let' How-To. dead? This must be some sort of UKism. > > But I've found that it only works if you do this; > <dtml-let name="'bob'" > relation="'uncle'"> > <dtml-var name> is your <dtml-var relation> > </dtml-let> > You are correct, the How-To is wrong. I'll fix it. -Michel > Otherwise you get NameErrors on 'bob' and 'uncle'. > > I don't think it's my installation, as I've tried this on > 2.0a4 and 2.0 final. > > cheers > tone. >

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