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Re: [ZCommerce] Worthy group agenda: ZOPE dynamic pages and search engines... engines...
by Joerg Herbst 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

> CodeIt and other zCommerce folks, > > Thanks for starting this important list. > > The biggest concern we have about moving our sites to Z2/PTK is the > 'invisibility' factor which can haunt sites based largely on dynamic pages > rather than static HTML files. > > We have heard anecdotal comments by folks on the general list saying, "No > sweat, I look at my logs and search engines crawlers and robots index my > site all the time." Crawling and actually indexing are two different things. > And which crawlers? There are no blanket easy answers here. > > Search engine indexing can be the lifeblood of certain types of sites. One > of our sites, http://popculturestore.com, started out as a raunchy > Fusion-generated collection of template-based pages for the hundreds of > collectible items in the store's inventory. > > With little effort we started getting orders from all over the world. Each > hard-coded page was indexed on its own right. > > Then we made The Pop Culture Store MUCH better for human visitors with some > Perl scripts. Within weeks we dropped off the face of the earth! Search > engines were not indexing our 'bread and butter' pages. > > Of course the situation should be different with the URL-addressing of ZOPE > pages. But how different? > > We need an 'ad hoc' study group to create or identify a 'guinea pig' > e-commerce site which we can use to test and confirm the 'indexability' of > ZOPE pages with EACH of the MAJOR search engines. (We use First Place > Software's WebPosition Gold for SE submissions and indexing validation. It > would be an excellent tool for running such formal tests.) > > Saying that SE indexing of ZOPE sites 'should work' is not going to cut it > for REAL business folks with REAL sites that depend on REAL visibility. > > We need to find out exactly what our 'search engine friendliness' factor is > and then have real information with which to respond to this and similar > questions. > > If we find that major search engines have trouble with ZOPE dynamic pages, > then we have identified a development requirement to allow ZOPE site > designers to include a 'shell of static doorway pages' generated and updated > as part of their template-based site design. > > We believe overcoming customers' objections to dynamic page designs will be > one of the BIGGEST hurdles in getting ZOPE used for e-commerce. > > We are very interested in collaborating with others to address this issue. > Due to entrepreneurial commitments, however, we cannot lead such an effort. > > Thanks again for starting this list, > --Jim and Timlynn-- > Hi, I guess this is not just a ZCommerce Problem, it's a general Problem of dynamically websites, built for a shop or just for information use. Any project with a lot of database stored content seems to have this problem. Maybe we can reach some effect with providing META Information on dynamic pages and with the intensive use of links. But for a general solution we need to know how robots work when meeting Zope webpages, what they do and what not. I'm not that great with such Zope details, but maybe somebody else know, how we can handle search engines for Zope. Joerg Herbst

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RE: [Zope] Idea: ZTest: Integrated Use-case based web site testin g.
by Alexander Staubo 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Martijn Pieters [mailto:mj@antraciet.nl] > Sent: 27. august 1999 10:18 > To: Alexander Staubo; Zope Mailing List (E-mail) > Subject: RE: [Zope] Idea: ZTest: Integrated Use-case based web site > testin g. [snip] > >Who writes this thing? This being an open source > initiative(TM), I'm all > >for chipping in. Anyone want to join the Scheduler Task Force? > > Well, we are getting a nice list of requirements already =). > Anyone having > some list space? Or shall we just move over to Zope-Dev? I have list space to spare, but I don't think this is big enough for a long-winded discussion -- let's implement rather than jerk off. ;) If you're interested, Martijn, we two can kick off this one. Or, we can set up a list and start jerking off. ;) > > -- > Martijn Pieters, Web Developer > | Antraciet http://www.antraciet.nl > | Tel: +31-35-7502100 Fax: +31-35-7502111 > | mailto:mj@antraciet.nl http://www.antraciet.nl/~mj > | PGP: http://wwwkeys.nl.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xA8A32149 ------------------------------------------ -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "Give me an underground laboratory, half a dozen atom smashers and a beautiful girl in a diaphanous veil waiting to be turned into a chimpanzee, and I care not who writes the nation's laws." --S. J. Perelman

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RE: [Zope] Idea: ZTest: Integrated Use-case based web site testin g.
by Alexander Staubo 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

Aside: Do you really need this within Zope if you can run a ZClient script with chron? While a scheduler within Zope isn't a bad idea, the infrastructure -- at least on Unix and NT -- is already there. -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "Give me an underground laboratory, half a dozen atom smashers and a beautiful girl in a diaphanous veil waiting to be turned into a chimpanzee, and I care not who writes the nation's laws." --S. J. Perelman > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay, Dylan [mailto:djay@lucent.com] > Sent: 27. august 1999 03:37 > To: 'zope(a)zope.org' > Subject: [Zope] Idea: ZTest: Integrated Use-case based web > site testing. > > > To much caffeine and some morning reading > (http://www.rational.com/products/rup/prodinfo/whitepapers/dyn > amic.jtmpl?doc > _key=101057) has given me a bit of a brainwave. > When building complex dynamic site testing is very important. > I've created > use-cases and test plans for my web-site. I've investigated > automatic site > testing tools a little bit but have found them a) expensive > b) not very good > when it comes to testing dynamic content and getting past > authentication. > What if a Zope site could test it self regularly and just > mail the webmaster > when something is wrong? > > So what I envisage is test-case objects that have a specification of a > certain scenario and expected results. It would be a series > of URLs with > parameters to be given and a specification of what the > requested page should > look like. Since this is internal to Zope then some > information about what > is interesting and what is not can probably be leveraged. > Such ZTestCase > objects can be created either by instrumenting the site and > then the you > step through the pages or can be edited manually. Specified > code could be > executed before and/or after each test case to set and reset test > conditions. ZTestRun objects can then be created which > specify a whole range > of test-cases to run. > > Another idea I had involves the creation of a scheduler > inside Zope so that > specified Zope code could be executed in the future or periodically. > Caching, indexing, retrieving external data, backup etc and of corse > scheduling running of test cases. > > Unfortunately for me I seem to have way more ideas than I > have time so I > don't know when I would get time to try implementing it so I > thought I'd > bounce it out into the community to see what others thought. > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (To receive general Zope announcements, see: > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > For developer-specific issues, zope-dev(a)zope.org - > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Idea: ZTest: Integrated Use-case based web site testin g.
by Jay, Dylan 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Staubo [mailto:alex@mop.no] > Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 16:54 > To: Zope Mailing List (E-mail); 'Jay, Dylan' > Subject: RE: [Zope] Idea: ZTest: Integrated Use-case based web site > testin g. > > > Aside: Do you really need this within Zope if you can run a ZClient > script with chron? While a scheduler within Zope isn't a bad idea, the > infrastructure -- at least on Unix and NT -- is already there. 1) Cross-platform - same interface for all platforms. 2) Programmable from within Zope - A request to a page results in a action being scheduled for 12pm that night. Of course you can do this with an external method but if its a feature a lot of people want then make it easy. 3) Ability to do things internal to Zope. ie without having to worry about breaching security etc. 4) ColdFusion has it... I think. > -- > Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ > "Give me an underground laboratory, half a dozen atom smashers and a > beautiful girl in a diaphanous veil waiting to be turned into a > chimpanzee, and I care not who writes the nation's laws." > --S. J. Perelman > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jay, Dylan [mailto:djay@lucent.com] > > Sent: 27. august 1999 03:37 > > To: 'zope(a)zope.org' > > Subject: [Zope] Idea: ZTest: Integrated Use-case based web > > site testing. > > > > > > To much caffeine and some morning reading > > (http://www.rational.com/products/rup/prodinfo/whitepapers/dyn > > amic.jtmpl?doc > > _key=101057) has given me a bit of a brainwave. > > When building complex dynamic site testing is very important. > > I've created > > use-cases and test plans for my web-site. I've investigated > > automatic site > > testing tools a little bit but have found them a) expensive > > b) not very good > > when it comes to testing dynamic content and getting past > > authentication. > > What if a Zope site could test it self regularly and just > > mail the webmaster > > when something is wrong? > > > > So what I envisage is test-case objects that have a > specification of a > > certain scenario and expected results. It would be a series > > of URLs with > > parameters to be given and a specification of what the > > requested page should > > look like. Since this is internal to Zope then some > > information about what > > is interesting and what is not can probably be leveraged. > > Such ZTestCase > > objects can be created either by instrumenting the site and > > then the you > > step through the pages or can be edited manually. Specified > > code could be > > executed before and/or after each test case to set and reset test > > conditions. ZTestRun objects can then be created which > > specify a whole range > > of test-cases to run. > > > > Another idea I had involves the creation of a scheduler > > inside Zope so that > > specified Zope code could be executed in the future or periodically. > > Caching, indexing, retrieving external data, backup etc and of corse > > scheduling running of test cases. > > > > Unfortunately for me I seem to have way more ideas than I > > have time so I > > don't know when I would get time to try implementing it so I > > thought I'd > > bounce it out into the community to see what others thought. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > > > (To receive general Zope announcements, see: > > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > > > For developer-specific issues, zope-dev(a)zope.org - > > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > >

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ldapmodule1.5 with python 1.52 linux
by Dr. Ross Lazarus 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

Has anyone managed to compile David Leonard's ldapmodule-1.5.tar under linux (redhat6) with python 1.52 for use with zope 2.x ? I get a slew of ugly error messages which I suspect mean that the wrapper needs undoing and rewrapping - unfortunately my c skills are even worse than my python.. If anyone's already done the work, I'd be grateful for a copy ? Or if I'm doing something particularly stupid and it does compile, please let me know privately ! (yes, I followed the instructions and no, I don't really know what I'm doing) -- Dr Ross Lazarus Associate Professor and Sub-Dean for Information Technology Faculty of Medicine, Room 126A, A27, University of Sydney, Camperdown, NSW 2006, Australia Tel: (+61 2) 93514429 Mobile: +61414872482 ICQ:32469983 Fax: (+61 2) 93516646 Email: rossl(a)med.usyd.edu.au http://www.health.usyd.edu.au/people/rossl.htm

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Guest Counter 1.1 removed
by Alexander Staubo 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

I made a doo-doo and managed to release the wrong version of my code. I'm temporarily removing Guest Counter 1.1 until I've fixed the problem. For those who have found that 1.1 is broken, please download 1.0 instead. It works fine: http://www.mop.no/~alex/download/guestcounter-1.0.tar.gz Embarrassedly yours, -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "Give me an underground laboratory, half a dozen atom smashers and a beautiful girl in a diaphanous veil waiting to be turned into a chimpanzee, and I care not who writes the nation's laws." --S. J. Perelman

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Re: [Zope] Where's ZCatalog
by Kevin Dangoor 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

ZCatalog is part of the Zope 2.0 distribution. (It should appear on your Add menu if you're running 2.0) Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Tim Wilson <wilson(a)chemsun.chem.umn.edu> To: Zope Listserv <zope(a)zope.org> Date: Thursday, August 26, 1999 10:04 PM Subject: [Zope] Where's ZCatalog >Hi everyone, > >Maybe I'm getting near-sighted, but I can't ZCatalog anywhere for >download. I've checked the old and new site with no luck. (It doesn't help >that searching the new site seems to be broken right now -- 503 errors.) >Where can I get this beast? > >-Tim > >-- >Timothy Wilson | "The faster you | Check out: >Henry Sibley H.S. | go, the shorter | http://slashdot.org/ >W. St. Paul, MN, USA | you are." | http://linux.com/ >wilson(a)chem.umn.edu | -Einstein | http://www.mn-linux.org/ > > >_______________________________________________ >Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org >http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > >(To receive general Zope announcements, see: >http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > >For developer-specific issues, zope-dev(a)zope.org - >http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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Calculated values stored as metadata in ZCatalog?
by Kevin Dangoor 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

Hi, Is it possible to store a calculated value as metadata in a ZCatalog? For example, let's say I have a ZClass with properties lastname and firstname, and an external method called "name" which returns "firstname lastname". If I put "name" in the metadata table of the catalog, it looks like the name external method is getting added to the metadata, not the calculated value. Is it possible to get the calculated value in there? (This example is not exactly what I'm doing, but is a fine illustration. I'm trying to avoid waking up the objects to get at this value...) Thanks in advance, Kevin

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Where's ZCatalog
by Tim Wilson 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

Hi everyone, Maybe I'm getting near-sighted, but I can't ZCatalog anywhere for download. I've checked the old and new site with no luck. (It doesn't help that searching the new site seems to be broken right now -- 503 errors.) Where can I get this beast? -Tim -- Timothy Wilson | "The faster you | Check out: Henry Sibley H.S. | go, the shorter | http://slashdot.org/ W. St. Paul, MN, USA | you are." | http://linux.com/ wilson(a)chem.umn.edu | -Einstein | http://www.mn-linux.org/

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Idea: ZTest: Integrated Use-case based web site testing.
by Jay, Dylan 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

To much caffeine and some morning reading (http://www.rational.com/products/rup/prodinfo/whitepapers/dynamic.jtmpl?doc _key=101057) has given me a bit of a brainwave. When building complex dynamic site testing is very important. I've created use-cases and test plans for my web-site. I've investigated automatic site testing tools a little bit but have found them a) expensive b) not very good when it comes to testing dynamic content and getting past authentication. What if a Zope site could test it self regularly and just mail the webmaster when something is wrong? So what I envisage is test-case objects that have a specification of a certain scenario and expected results. It would be a series of URLs with parameters to be given and a specification of what the requested page should look like. Since this is internal to Zope then some information about what is interesting and what is not can probably be leveraged. Such ZTestCase objects can be created either by instrumenting the site and then the you step through the pages or can be edited manually. Specified code could be executed before and/or after each test case to set and reset test conditions. ZTestRun objects can then be created which specify a whole range of test-cases to run. Another idea I had involves the creation of a scheduler inside Zope so that specified Zope code could be executed in the future or periodically. Caching, indexing, retrieving external data, backup etc and of corse scheduling running of test cases. Unfortunately for me I seem to have way more ideas than I have time so I don't know when I would get time to try implementing it so I thought I'd bounce it out into the community to see what others thought.

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