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Server specs.
by Tom Deprez 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

Hi all, Regarding the comments I received, we decided to use following configuration for server. The server is connected on the intranet. It will run Zope, PostGresSQL (because I don't know if SyBase new versions will be free too) on Linux, RedHat 6.0 We've about 2000 Pc's which can have access to Zope OS are Macintosh or Windows About 150 (at the moment PowerMacs, later on NT) will run intensive queries on the server. These 150 should get the results very fast. About 500-600 will ask less intensive requests. The server has the privelage that it may be down for some time. So no expensive HD systems. However, the data is important and needs to be backuped. Specs : Pentium II : 400-450 Mhz Memory : 256 MB SDRAM (probably ECC) Hard-disk : >25GB Backup : * Now: Data doesn't change too much, we also need to make CD demonstrations : HP CD Rewriter (Does someone know about compatibility problems of these writers with Linux RedHat 6.0?) * Later, when system needs to be frequently updated ( > 1, 1.5 year from now) Does someone knows some supported backup systems for RedHat 6.0? Somebody any recommendations? Kind Regards, Tom.

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RE: [Zope] Server specs.
by Alexander Staubo 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

[snip] > > Python is a real CPU sponge, and for this kind of load I'd > definitely > > bump the horsepower up to a dual Pentium III Xeon 500MHz, 512KB L2 > > cache. Around $1100 per CPU. That said, however, I don't > know how well > > Linux scales to two CPUs; for web serving, recent benchmarks have > > pointed out that it doesn't scale well at all. > > Cough, cough. Are you referring to the Mindcraft benchmarks? > They didn't > cover *dynamic* websites at all, I think, and definitely they didn't > benchmark Zope. Also for static pages, Linux scales well > enough to drown > most network connections anyway. Secondarily Mindcraft (the second round), primarily a recent ZDNet benchmark published in, iirc, PC Magazine. So it was testing Stronghold -- the commercial distribution of Apache -- but in the end, NT proved to scale a lot better. Linux is a great server OS (except on API level and wrt kernel services, imho, but that's just me), but it does not scale very well *just* yet. [snip] >But > indeed RAM is the biggest bottleneck of these all. Not necessarily. RAM is significant for large databases requiring fast response times. A good rule of thumb (if you're in an "enterprise", to wit) is to have as much RAM as the size of database. Disk swapping is the enemy of database performance. > > Multiple-port or multiple network cards. Multiport NICs support port > > failover and typically come with load balancing. Coupled with one or > > more switches, these are real killers when it comes to bandwidth and > > responsiveness. > > This sounds like way overkill. 2000 networked PCs and one server. Unless your users just spend all day surfing the net, you have a saturated segment right there. Where's the overkill? >I'm no hardware guy, but to > support this > you'd need a couple of fulltime engineers and some OS extensions, I'd > think. :) Why? I thought Linux had multiport NIC support in the box. > Perhaps the best option is to try it out on a reasonable system first. > If it gets too slow later (usage first has to pick up a lot, too, > internally, this takes time), you can always upgrade the RAM, > or switch > to a more powerful system. Prices of these systems will have come down > too in the mean time. All in all you might end up spending less money > going this route than buying a possibly overpowered system now. Wise words, but another good rule is: "Don't underspend". Match your investment with your requirements, and research carefully. >Regards, > >Martijn -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "QED?" said Russell. "It's Latin," said Morgan. "It means, 'So there you bastard'." --Robert Rankin, _Nostramadus Ate My Hamster_

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Lines property slicing
by Jason Spisak 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

Zopsters, I am trying to put a value into a particular line in a lines property. I thougt python list syntax would work like so:  But I get a "keyword can't be an expression" eror when trying save the DTML. Anyone have experience with this? I am trying to allow people to store multiple times and edit them and save them again. All my best, -- Jason Spisak webmaster(a)mtear.com

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RE: [Zope] ZServer lockups
by Paul Everitt 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

And one other debugging thing to look for: when it's hung, check to see if the process is consuming much CPU. --Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Amos Latteier [mailto:amos@aracnet.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 5:23 PM > To: Jonas Juselius; jason(a)brahms.siteprotect.com; Robin Becker > Cc: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] ZServer lockups > > > At 11:23 AM 8/11/99 +0300, Jonas Juselius wrote: > >I'm experiencing the same kind of problems, although I'm > using the Zope > server > >(no Apache)... Netscape seems to lock up waiting for data > infinitely. I can > >usually get around this problem by re-clicking on a url a > couple of times, > >which resolves the problem for the moment. But after ZServer > has gone into > >this state, it locks up again and again until ZServer is > restarted... I'm > >using Zope-2.0.0b3-linux2-x86. > > > >jonas > > > >On Tue, Aug 10, 1999 at 12:33:56PM -0500, > jason(a)brahms.siteprotect.com wrote: > >> > >> I'm experiencing occasional lockups of ZServer (currently being > >> used in conjuction with PCGI and Apache). When this happens, I get > >> no response at all from the http interface (Netscape > eventually times > >> out and says the document contains no data). > > A number of folks have posted about Zope lock up issues. It is very > important to me to resolve this issues. > > If any of you can reproduce a Zope lock up, please, please, > please, submit > this issue to the Collector, ASAP. > > Tracking down problems like these can be difficult. There are lots of > things that can go wrong which could cause Zope to stop > responding, for > example serious problems in any of these areas could halt Zope: > > * ZServer > * The Zope process itself > * The object database > > When ZServer occasionally locks up for me, it usually because I did > something that's causing the publishing process to hang. This > happens when > you are coding external methods or Python products and make > certain kinds > of mistakes that put Zope in a loop. > > If ZServer itself breaks usually you will get something > written to the info > log, or else ZServer will exit with a traceback. If you suspect that > ZServer is the problem try running it with the -D switch so > that the info > logging goes to the STDOUT and so you can read the traceback > in case it exits. > > If you think that your object database is messed up you can > test things by > using the scripts in the utilities directory. You can also > use the monitor > to poke around at objects and check out if their state is weird. > > In general if you've got an object database problem you > should still be > able to connect to the ZServer monitor and ftp servers which does not > immediately rely on the object database. > > If Zope is completely unresponsive, then there's not a lot you can do > except kill the process. If you can kill it in the foreground with a > control-c then you will get a traceback which may give you > some clue as to > what was wrong. > > So to reiterate: If you can reproduce a lockup submit it to > the Collector. > If you are developing external methods or Products there is a > good chance > the your code is causing the problem. If not, poke around and > see what you > can find, and post your findings to the Zope list, with > enough information > we should be able to solve the problem. > > Good luck! > > -Amos > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (To receive general Zope announcements, see: > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > For developer-specific issues, zope-dev(a)zope.org - > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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ZopeTime
by wombat_harness＠hotmail.com 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

Hey, Anyone have any ideas on how i can create a variable using the REQUEST.set object and insert the ZopeTime into it formatted with just the time? and not the date and GMT on the end?? Probably an impossible suggestion but, hey.... Cheers, Wom.

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RE: [Zope] Giving up in frustration
by Andrew M. Kuchling 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

Thaxter, Jason M. writes: >I've come across the use of 'Zen' in Python contexts: this is the likely >origin, I would guess... It's of more general hackish origin. >From http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/zen.html: zen vt. To figure out something by meditation or by a sudden flash of enlightenment. Originally applied to bugs, but occasionally applied to problems of life in general. "How'd you figure out the buffer allocation problem?" "Oh, I zenned it." Contrast grok, which connotes a time-extended version of zenning a system. Compare hack mode. See also guru. The section on religion in appendix B of the Jargon File is also worth reading. -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.python.net/crew/amk/ Predicting the future, as we all know, is risky. Predicting the evolution of new technology is downright hazardous. -- Leon Cooper

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RE: offtopic RE: [Zope] HD
by Alexander Staubo 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

> > IDE/ATAPI drive? Unless money is really tight, don't go for > anything but > Absolutly right ;) > Only the really tight isn't appropiate anymore nowadays :(, I've just > calculated the ratio for big discs, and it comes to 2.73 :( > > 36400MB IBM DRHS-336400LVD 2.85 cent/MB > 25000MB IBM DJNA-352500 Janus 1.04 cent/MB > > I know, you get completely two different kinds of discs, but both > basically store data. Well, I'm not even sure the comparison was worthwhile (fyi, floppy disks basically store data, too ;). Without wanting to go into an extremely detailed, esoteric discussion... [I tried to match your model numbers with the IBM catalogue, I hope I got this right] DRHS-336400LVD (IBM Ultrastar 36XP): 36.4GB U2W Low-Voltage Differential 7200RPM?, 7.5 ms avg seek time 19.7MB/sec sustained transfer rate 4.0MB cache SCSI controller on-deck DJNA-352500 (IBM Desktar 25GP) 25GB Ultra DMA/66 5400RPM, 8.5ms avg seek time 15.5MB/sec sustained transfer rate 2.0MB cache Brainless > > SCSI. SCSI is a much more flexible solution, and generally > faster, less > > CPU-intensive, and more compatible. > That is not really true. Well done DMA is about the same > level than SCSI, If you have one disk or two disks on separate chains -- yes. Now, exactly how realistic is that? Not to mention you can't have more than four devices in total, two of which can never be accessed concurrently because of IDE design limitations. You can chuck in more controllers, but you have only so many PCI slots. ;) And never mind the fact that ATA66 pushes 66MB/sec max, whereas U2W now is at 80MB/sec with standard SCA-2 cabling, up to 200MB/sec with FCAL. And never mind the fact that they simply don't make really fast ATAPI drives. ;) -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "QED?" said Russell. "It's Latin," said Morgan. "It means, 'So there you bastard'." --Robert Rankin, _Nostramadus Ate My Hamster_

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restricted access....not working.
by Tony McDonald 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

HI all, I followed the thread yesterday on restricting access and as that is something I need to do now, I thought I'd have a go. I have a folder at the root level called 'Upload'. Upload has an acl_users folder with one user that has the 'Manager' role. I opened the index_html DTML document and changed the 'Acquire Permission Settings' security tag for 'view' to be off (all other acquires are on and the only role checkboxes set are for Manager). There is an acl_users folder at the top level (must be, because you can't delete it), but there's no one in it. If I try to access the url Upload/ I get the authentication dialog (good so far), but the *only* user that will let me through is the superuser one. If I add a user to the top level acl_users folder (different name to the Upload acl_user), then I *can* get into the system. Is this behaviour normal? Am I missing my dose of Zope-Zen this morning? Zope2.0b1 on Solaris 5.6 tia Tone ------ Dr Tony McDonald, FMCC, Networked Learning Environments Project http://nle.ncl.ac.uk/ The Medical School, Newcastle University Tel: +44 191 222 5888 Fingerprint: 3450 876D FA41 B926 D3DD F8C3 F2D0 C3B9 8B38 18A2

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RE: [Zope] Server specs.
by Alexander Staubo 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

> Hi all, > > Regarding the comments I received, we decided to use following > configuration for server. [snip] > > Somebody any recommendations? > Yes. Although you don't say what kind of environment this is -- sales/journaling system? Intranet? Mail? Document management? Or what kind of load. "About 500-600 will ask less intensive requests" -- yes, but when? Distributed over a day? Concurrently? What about your data? Lots of rows, lots of data, or both? And so forth. Based on the information you do give out: Python is a real CPU sponge, and for this kind of load I'd definitely bump the horsepower up to a dual Pentium III Xeon 500MHz, 512KB L2 cache. Around $1100 per CPU. That said, however, I don't know how well Linux scales to two CPUs; for web serving, recent benchmarks have pointed out that it doesn't scale well at all. Fast disks. Ultra SCSI at a minimum, preferably Wide and/or Ultra2 SCSI, preferably striped volumes. Zope may not be the real disk hog, but database servers are. I bet PostgreSQL isn't an exception; I know Sybase is. RAM is crucial, but you'll probably survive on 256MB, although with your kind of environment I'd personally opt for 512MB at a minimum. Multiple-port or multiple network cards. Multiport NICs support port failover and typically come with load balancing. Coupled with one or more switches, these are real killers when it comes to bandwidth and responsiveness. > Kind Regards, Tom. -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "QED?" said Russell. "It's Latin," said Morgan. "It means, 'So there you bastard'." --Robert Rankin, _Nostramadus Ate My Hamster_

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HD
by Tom Deprez 18 Aug '99

18 Aug '99

Somebody already experience with Maxtor DiamondMax 6800 27 GB Harddrives on Linux?

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