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RE: [Zope] Use Amaya! Even PCWeek recommends it! -- WAS: IE/Netsc ape Authoring ... ...
by Michel Pelletier 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Page [mailto:rob.page@digicool.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 11:00 AM > To: Anthony Baxter > Cc: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: RE: [Zope] Use Amaya! Even PCWeek recommends it! -- WAS: > IE/Netsc ape Authoring ... ... > > > > wow. It's a while since I looked at Amaya - ( > > http://www.w3.org/Amaya/ ) > > and it's certainly improved a lot > > since then. > > > > what's it's publishing like when editing Zope objects? > > Hmmm.. I had that same question.. I downloaded and installed Amaya and > started tinkering with some Zope objects. Unfortunately, I have bad > news... > > o obviously, opening, for example, index_html gives you the rendered > version -- a problem for even maintaining  type references which Amaya snarfs out. :^( > Does it support FTP? -Michel > o Then I tried creating a simple_content object and wrapping it in > simple DTML refereces > > i.e., > >  >  >  > > where simple_content contained only legal HTML. Unfortunately, Amaya > saw that the content object lacked legal HTML headers and footers and > provided them to me resulting in, for example, redundant > HTML and BODY > tags. > > o it does say that I could, ostensible after R'ing TFM plug > in my own, > more promiscuous, DTD and circumvent some of these issues > > o On the upside it seems MUCH more reliable on large/complicated PUTs > than Composer -- possible making it a reasonable low-rent content > authoring mechanism... It certainly _does_ keep the resulting HTML > clean! > > --Rob > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Use Amaya! Even PCWeek recommends it! -- WAS: IE/Netsc ape Authoring ... ...
by Rob Page 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

> wow. It's a while since I looked at Amaya - ( > http://www.w3.org/Amaya/ ) > and it's certainly improved a lot > since then. > > what's it's publishing like when editing Zope objects? Hmmm.. I had that same question.. I downloaded and installed Amaya and started tinkering with some Zope objects. Unfortunately, I have bad news... o obviously, opening, for example, index_html gives you the rendered version -- a problem for even maintaining  type references which Amaya snarfs out. :^( o Then I tried creating a simple_content object and wrapping it in simple DTML refereces i.e.,    where simple_content contained only legal HTML. Unfortunately, Amaya saw that the content object lacked legal HTML headers and footers and provided them to me resulting in, for example, redundant HTML and BODY tags. o it does say that I could, ostensible after R'ing TFM plug in my own, more promiscuous, DTD and circumvent some of these issues o On the upside it seems MUCH more reliable on large/complicated PUTs than Composer -- possible making it a reasonable low-rent content authoring mechanism... It certainly _does_ keep the resulting HTML clean! --Rob

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RE: [Zope] Copy and Paste with ZopeCVS
by Michel Pelletier 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Harris [mailto:phil@philh.org] > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 5:07 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Copy and Paste with ZopeCVS > > > Hi all, > > It's me rabble rousing again. > > As a follow up to my last post, cut and paste of multiple > objects does not > seem to work, at least for me. > > I've tried this on multiple machine now so I think it must be a bug. > > Any ideas? > Probably a bug. Can you submit it to the Collector with the traceback you get when it bombs? Thanks. -Michel > Phil > phil(a)philh.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Packing and importing with ZODB3?
by Michel Pelletier 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Harris [mailto:phil@philh.org] > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 4:59 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Packing and importing with ZODB3? > > > Hi all, > > I'm trying out a CVS version from last night (GMT) and am > having trouble > packing the database, I've imported a lot of files and would > like to pack > but nothing happens when you click the pack button. Pack is not implimented yet. It will be implimented in the beta, or possibly an upcomming alpha. We are being very thorough about making sure we release an extremely useful and stable final product, the alphas may not be feature complete yet, but the final will be well worth the wait. > > I know that some of the DB management features are not yet > available but is > there anyway of packing other than using the pack button. > Nope. > On another note I'm having trouble importing a ZODB3 exported > 'portion' of > another db, I have ZopeCVS running on my machine at home and wanted to > import some stuff to a machine running ZopeCVS at work and > it's a no-go, any > ideas. > Sounds like a bug. First, can you submit it to the collector so we don't forget about it (http://www.zope.org/Collector/) and second post the traceback that you got when the error occours (please put the traceback in your collector submision also)? -Michel > TIA > > Phil > phil(a)philh.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] win32 binaries for Zope 2 ?
by Miller, John M. 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

I've been trying (not very hard, admittedly) to add a little spark to that glimmer. I haven't had much time as I am in the midst of changing assignments at work, but I have gotten so far as to see a bunch of ld errors when the build script tries to make shared libraries for Zope's C extensions. The problem is very likely a mixture of path setup problems on my machine and a great dearth of understanding on my part on how Cygwin is used to build shared libraries (err, DLL's in Windows-speak). Hopefully I will get the opportunity to learn more about all this and find out what's really going on. If anybody else has had any experience I most heartily encourage you to share, Zope on cygwin could be a great alternative to those of us without access to Linux or Developer Studio trying to find useful things to do while at work! Thanks, John Miller DDASC x1219 > -----Original Message----- > From: michel(a)digicool.com [SMTP:michel@digicool.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:08 PM > To: Kent Tenney > Cc: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] win32 binaries for Zope 2 ? > > Kent Tenney <ktenney(a)win.bright.net> writes: > > > are they available? if so where? > > if not, when? > > > > TIA > > Kent > > > > There aren't any any alpha binaries for any platform. This is > intentional. You must be able to compile your own to get an alpha > working. Binaries are provided for betas. > > Unfortunately this means we seldom hear from the Windows crowd (other > than a few hard core windows folks with compilers) due to the > expensive nature of most windows compiler products. > > There is, however, a glimmer of hope with cygwin. If you can get Zope > to compile with cygwin and gcc, then you're on. Please pass on your > experiences if you do. > > If I had Windows, I'd give it a go myself. > > -Michel > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

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RE: [Zope] Zope performance too low ?
by Michel Pelletier 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Staubo [mailto:alex@mop.no] > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 10:36 AM > To: Zope Mailing List (E-mail) > Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope performance too low ? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: zope-admin(a)zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of > >Michel Pelletier > > Ouch. These extremely low transfer rates bother me. The theoretical > bandwidth on a local machine transfer should be way, way higher. Otoh, > your document was very small, so the stop/start, connect/teardown > margins would be relatively high. I'd like to see benchmarks > with longer > (>3KB) documents. > I think these numbers are low because the trasfer was so fast and small, the mathmatical precision of the calculation was effected. I don't know how 'ab' calculates time, but it probably uses some less than high resolution system call. > > Yep, but ASP, PHP, Cold Fusion, etc. have proven to be very, > very fast. > I can see PHP being convincingly 'proven' to be fast, but I have doubts about the validity *any* comercial company says about their closed source program. Have there been independant benchmarks? > > True, although your users (or you clients :-)) may be your best > benchmark. > Yes we love our users. ;) -Michel

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RE: [Zope] Zope performance too low ?
by Alexander Staubo 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

>-----Original Message----- >From: zope-admin(a)zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of >Michel Pelletier >Sent: 17. juni 1999 16:14 >To: 'christian(a)riddlers.com'; Brian Lloyd; zope(a)zope.org >Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope performance too low ? > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Christian Andreassen [mailto:christian@riddlers.com] >> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 4:33 AM >> To: 'Brian Lloyd'; zope(a)zope.org >> Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope performance too low ? [snip] >Same as above, but with two concurrent requests: > > Ran ab as: "./ab -n 1000 -c 2 http://aldous:9673/test" > > Bechmark output: > > Concurrency Level: 2 > Time taken for tests: 26.026 seconds > Requests per second: 38.42 > Transfer rate: 11.41 kb/s received > > >Same as above, with 4 concurrent requests: > > Concurrency Level: 4 > Time taken for tests: 26.738 seconds > Requests per second: 37.40 > Transfer rate: 11.13 kb/s received Ouch. These extremely low transfer rates bother me. The theoretical bandwidth on a local machine transfer should be way, way higher. Otoh, your document was very small, so the stop/start, connect/teardown margins would be relatively high. I'd like to see benchmarks with longer (>3KB) documents. >One problem with *both* of our benchmarks is that they are running on >the same machine in both cases. Also, what are we >benchmarking against? >Another 'application server'? How would ASP compare? or PHP? How can >you compare two wildly different technologies (PHP has no >infrastructure, object model, object orientation, standard managment >interface, standard security model, acquisition etc. the list goes on >for miles)? I suspect Zope would blow the doors off of any old CGI >script that has to spawn on every hit. Yep, but ASP, PHP, Cold Fusion, etc. have proven to be very, very fast. I suspect the main explanation is (a) they're in-process solutions tightly integrated with the web server (except for Cold Fusion, which iirc has a client stub that uses IPC to talk to the CF server, much like Zope on Win32 today), and (b) they're not written in Python. [snip] >What this proves, is that benchmarks are very strange things. I trust >politicians more than I trust benchmarks, including my *own* >benchmarks. True, although your users (or you clients :-)) may be your best benchmark. >>The reality of the situation comes from real life experience. Zope has >been proven to scale extremly well, and will only get better. > >> BTW, how is www.zope.org configured? Do you see the same >> drastic difference >> between static pages and Zope pages there? >> > >No, the performance is quite nice. > >> >> Christian Andreassen: christian(a)riddlers.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org >> http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope >> >> (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, >> zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >> > >_______________________________________________ >Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org >http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > >(For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, >zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Managing users in sub-folders
by Michel Pelletier 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Harris [mailto:phil@philh.org] > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 6:31 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Managing users in sub-folders > > > Hi all, > > I have a small test system set up and want to allow a role to > manage users, > not the Manager or Owner but a role called 'author'. > > What properties would I have to set to allow this role to > manage users for a > specific directory but not to manage any other stuff? > In the specific directory you want to give the 'author' role permission in, click on Security and create the role 'Author' (adding new roles is at the bottom of the security screen, below all the permissions). Give or take what permissions you want the author role to have in that folder. Next, go into the user folder *for that folder* (you may have to make one first) and click on security, and give the 'Author' role the permission 'Manage Users'. -Michel > TIA > > Phil > phil(a)philh.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Login Button?
by Michel Pelletier 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Harris [mailto:phil@philh.org] > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 6:35 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Login Button? > > > Hi all, > > What part of the Zope-mystery would I call to make use of a > login button, I > know how to check for particular access, but I would like to > create a page > that has certain functionality for 'anonymous' but offers > more functionality > if the user authenticates after clicking on a button/link/etc. > This is untested, and possibly wrong, but: You could make a link to a DTML method with the following DTML:    This will prompt the user to login, and if they log in successfully, redirect them back to the page with all your little s and such to check their access privledges. Make sense? -Michel > TIA > > Phil > phil(a)philh.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Zope performance too low ?
by Michel Pelletier 17 Jun '99

17 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Christian Andreassen [mailto:christian@riddlers.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 4:33 AM > To: 'Brian Lloyd'; zope(a)zope.org > Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope performance too low ? > > > > I'm not that familiar with ab, but you don't give a lot of > > information on your setup here (processor, memory, load > > (discounting zope), publishing mechanism (pcgi? ZServer? mod_pcgi?), > > details of the DTML used), which would be helpful to put this kind > > of information in context. > > I forgot. The server is a Pentium 200 with 96MB RAM, running Redhat > Linux 5.2, Apache 1.3.4 and Zope 1.10.2. There was no other > significant > load on the server when I did the tests. The publishing mechanism is > pcgi. > Hmm.. is the first request from the benchmark software the request that fires up Zope? Remember, this is a 5 second+ delay between the very first request and it's response while Zope loads. This can explain why you got less than 3 requests per second. Also, a 50 request trial is pretty short. After seeing your mail, I ran some benchmarks of my own. I have distilled out everything but the requests per second figure, like you did. Note, that my benchamarks are a completely different setup than yours, which probably helps to explain why I got 20 times the performance you did. Machine: PII 350Mhz, 256M RAM OS: Red Hat Linux 5.2 Runtime: No X Windows, one emacs, two shells, various daemons free report before benchmarks: total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 257048 138332 118716 18432 44312 72200 -/+ buffers/cache: 21820 235228 Swap: 258744 228 258516 Standalone benchmark: Description: Ran Zope 2.0 alpha 2 as: "python1.5.2 z2.py -d 216.164.72.2" Ran ab as: "./ab -n 1000 http://aldous:9673/test" The test document contains:  <h2></h2> <p> This is the  Document. </p>  Benchmark output: Concurrency Level: 1 Time taken for tests: 27.523 seconds Requests per second: 36.33 Transfer rate: 10.79 kb/s received Same as above, but with two concurrent requests: Ran ab as: "./ab -n 1000 -c 2 http://aldous:9673/test" Bechmark output: Concurrency Level: 2 Time taken for tests: 26.026 seconds Requests per second: 38.42 Transfer rate: 11.41 kb/s received Same as above, with 4 concurrent requests: Concurrency Level: 4 Time taken for tests: 26.738 seconds Requests per second: 37.40 Transfer rate: 11.13 kb/s received One problem with *both* of our benchmarks is that they are running on the same machine in both cases. Also, what are we benchmarking against? Another 'application server'? How would ASP compare? or PHP? How can you compare two wildly different technologies (PHP has no infrastructure, object model, object orientation, standard managment interface, standard security model, acquisition etc. the list goes on for miles)? I suspect Zope would blow the doors off of any old CGI script that has to spawn on every hit. And requests per second is our only benchmark parameter, what about speed vs. object database size? ZODB is so well engineered I suspect a benchmark in this area would be promising. and how about DTML rendering speed? Or ZServer vs. PCGI? What this proves, is that benchmarks are very strange things. I trust politicians more than I trust benchmarks, including my *own* benchmarks. The reality of the situation comes from real life experience. Zope has been proven to scale extremly well, and will only get better. > BTW, how is www.zope.org configured? Do you see the same > drastic difference > between static pages and Zope pages there? > No, the performance is quite nice. > > Christian Andreassen: christian(a)riddlers.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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