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RE: [Zope] (Fwd) Zope musings
by Paul Everitt 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

David wrote: > I just tried it, and it worked fine for what I tried to do! Netscape > Composer complains a little about the odd URLs, but at least > it lets you > publish it anyway, and it seems to work just fine! I don't > know what I'd > done wrong before. I do: Zope PUT support was broken. :^) Also, trying to publish a filename with a character that must be quoted for a URL, such as "index.html~" (an Emacs backup file) currently makes it mad. > I'll give that a shot with the target audience, see how it goes. I'm interested to hear the results. Also, Brian Lloyd here implemented a feature that extracts DTML Document Properties from META tags. Thus, your customers could you Composer's friendly GUI for adding meta information to their documents without needing to know HTML. (Alternatively you could create templates that had them automatically). With this, things like the Find machinery and the still-incubating Zope search facility could harness some powerful cataloging facilities. Just something to thing about...

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Nexusweb experiences?
by Chris Larson 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

Anyone have any experience using Nexusweb? They seem to be offering quite a bit for a song. They are offering a very robust service for $30 a month. I'm fighting my scepticism and considering a move over there. What access do they allow from the shell? What OS(es) are they running? Do they seem to be current with their systems and utilities? Are they responsive on a technical level? Do they allow implementation of your own Zope, or a folder within their Zope? What (Or _are_) they charging extra for Zope? Anyone else made nervous by the "Prices may change withut notice" statement in their policy page? I'll be asking them the same questions. I'd also like to get any general comments anyone is willing to toss out. I'm asking this of the group, as they are one of two listed Zope-hosting ISPs? Thanks much, Chris Larson

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Re: [Zope] REQUEST.form (newbie help)
by Martijn Pieters 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

At 19:58 17-2-99 , you wrote: >I am having some trouble getting a list of variables sent to a DTML doc. >I tried: > >and > > Try:  or even better <table>  <tr><td><b></b>: <td>  </table> The trick is the expr="" attribute.

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RE: [Zope] (Fwd) Zope musings
by Paul Everitt 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

David wrote: > Paul mumbled: > I'll jump in, since this is an issue I worry about w.r.t > Zope's success > well for places I know, such as university departments where > faculty, not > hackers, do web page editing and e.g. my organization, where > I want e.g. > the HR manager to be able to edit the web pages and > blissfully ignore all > of the cool Zope features that the webmaster really likes... Is there are reason these folks can't use Netscape Composer? It doesn't sound like they would ever grok DTML... > All sounds fine, of course. It does sound distant -- which > is fine in the > long term, but worrisome in the short term. I don't know of a single > WebDAV client I can play with, let alone a full-featured > WebDAV-aware HTML > editor. That's true. If, however, Mozilla sprouted WebDAV capabilities in the next three months, is that near enough term? > > If someone has Linux on their desktop, how do they manage CF sites? > > Irrelevant if your shop (as mine does) has a single Linux box as the > server, and oodles of macs and PC's on desktops. Correct. But I don't think Zope should pursue a direction that excludes platforms such as Linux. > > Let me ask a question that tries to quantify the situation. > IMO, the > > current Zope IDE is pretty unproductive. On a scale of 1 > to 100, its > > *productivity* level is about a 5 compared to NetObjects Fusion, > > Dreamweaver, etc. On other factors it shines -- it is based on > > standards, is completely portable, source code is available, is > > mind-numbingly easy to modify the IDE, etc. > > > > Just for argument, let's say that CF Studio is a 90. If we came out > > with an improved IDE that retained the factors listed above that CF > > Studio fails at, what number would it need to move up to > for you to give > > an unqualified "Yes!" ?? > > In our case, I suspect, a 20 or 30 would be enough. What's > most important > is, I think: > > - a GUI for the 95% of the web page editing tasks (a-la Netscape > Composer, Frontpage, etc.). OK, fortunately Zope 1.10 appears to have solid Netscape Composer integration. FrontPage 2000 should be out within, say, four months, and (theoretically) we'll get that with WebDAV. > - a clean, robust, and simple interaction between the user > (someone who > does not want to learn HTML but wants to manage their web page > nonetheless) and the "web server" -- Zope in this case. OK, we have that with "Netscape Publishing" (HTTP PUT). > > If *we* is your shop, how about...XEmacs? Using ZServer to > publish your > > object system by HTTP, you can be *significantly* more productive: > > Again, emacs is irrelevant for my HR manager, who'd quit if > she was told > she had to learn it (and, I dare say, she'd be right =). It But she would also quit if she had to learn ColdFusion Studio. You're mixing up the discussions -- Alan was asking about that comparison. I imagine he'd quit if he had to manage web sites using FrontPage :^) > *could* be > that Netscape Composer is the answer for my shop -- I haven't tried it > with the FTP-enabled Zope. You don't need ZServer and FTP for it. Download Zope 1.10pr1 and use ZopeHTTPServer. It *appears* to work well, and works well with PCGI/Apache as well. > > It would still be missing a *whole* lot of things vs. CF > Studio, such as > > link checkers, a list of variables that can be inserted, syntax > > colorization of the markup, etc. Let's say it moved up to a 25. > > From the perspective of someone who wants to use tools and > not hack code, > emacs is useless. The folks I'm trying to convince rave I agree that *content managers* won't adopt Emacs. However, *developers* such as Tom and Alan might find it a wildly productive environment. > about GoLive or > whatever it's called. I looked at it and couldn't get it to > manage Zope > pages, but that could be me. > > So, as a summary: > > - emacs is fine for folks that already use emacs, but... > - emacs is not an HTML-editing tool. It's a swiss-army chainsaw, as > we all know. (Besides, what about the vi shops? =)) > - I think Zope is an easy sell to webmasters who think ahead. > - I think Zope is currently a hard sell to folks who like > shrink-wrapped > software with lots of buttons and gizmos and WYSIWYG. Right. And Zope needs to be more productive for both content managers and developers. --Paul

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Re: [Zope] Anyone see Drumbeat for web site IDE?
by Robert OConnor 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

>From Brad: >InfoWorld Feb 8, page 59 has a review of Drumbeat as >a replacement for Netobjects Fusion, and as an IDE. Here is the link: http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayArchive.pl?/99/06/i08-06.59.htm -bob oconnor

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Getting role information
by Martijn Faassen 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

Hi everybody, I'm trying to write an external method that returns different HTML snippets (actually structured text) depending on which role the person requesting the page has. The idea is to give different info to the viewer if the user happens to be a manager (or some other role) vs anonymous. This way, one could for instance include extra hyperlinks (for example to 'manage this page'). Is something like this possible at all? Perhaps such info isn't sent to anonymous pages. And if it's possible, how does one do it? The goal behind this question is to produce pages which have content that is very easy to change. The anonymous user would see the normal page, and a user that has a special 'editor' role would instead see (if the user first logged in as editor) extra hyperlinks. Clicking on such a link would bring up a page with a textarea field, where the editor can change the text (in structured text format). All texts would be stored in properties of the folder, or possibly in other documents. The external method would look somewhat like this: def editable(self, id, REQUEST=None): """Completely fictional and nonfunctional code, based on misconceptions. """ # we know of no such id, so give error if not hasattr(self, id): return "[error] No such id: %s" % id if REQUEST.AUTHENTICATED_USER.has_role("editor"): # if we are the editor, we want to show a hyperlink to edit_<id here> # or something similar edit_hyperlink = "<a href=\"edit_%s\">%s</a>" % (id, id) # hyperlink gets prefixed to actual text return edit_hyperlink + structured_text(getattr(self, id)) else: # just return the text, formatted in structured text format return structured_text(getattr(self, id)) Would this be a good idea? Can one get this working at all? Regards, Martijn

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Re: Zope Installation
by nexusweb 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

---------- > From: Tam McClure > To: kid(a)ans.net > Cc: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: Zope Installation > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 4:17 PM > > I tryed all of that, but it does not work. Zope does not seem to accept > authentication. > > > Jacques M. > > At 03:21 PM 2/15/99 -0600, you wrote: > > -- > ************************************************* > Artist Management Services > http://ams.2kweb.net > ams(a)ams.2kweb.net > NexusWeb Hosting > 300 Meg Domains $20* a month > http://www.nexusweb.net > nexusweb(a)nexusweb.net > 48 Dogwood Lane, Springfield, AR 72157 > Phone: 501-354-3724 > ************************************************* > >From webmaster(a)nexusweb.net Mon Feb 15 14:18:37 1999 > Received: from hercules.pwebtech.com ([207.156.247.200]) by > blue.2kweb.net > (8.8.5) id OAA11155; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:18:36 -0700 (MST) > Received: from default (dal-qbu-zoj-vty96.as.wcom.net > [209.154.117.96]) > by hercules.pwebtech.com (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00277 > for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:18:28 -0500 (EST) > Message-Id: <199902152118.QAA00277(a)hercules.pwebtech.com> > From: "nexusweb" > To: > Subject: Fw: [Zope] Installation on Solaris > Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:20:05 -0600 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Priority: 3 > X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BE58F6.AA4FACE0" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > ---------- > > From: Kevin Dangoor <kid(a)ans.net> > > To: nexusweb <webmaster(a)nexusweb.net> > > Cc: jason(a)pwebtech.com; dickw(a)tkb.att.ne.jp; zope(a)zope.org > > Subject: Re: [Zope] Installation on Solaris > > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 2:54 PM > > > > The file docs/WEBSERVER.txt (in your Zope directory) or > > http://www.zope.org/Download/Installation/WebServer contains > information > > about getting Apache to do authentication. > > > > Here is the relevant part: > > > > [--included text--] > > Tricking Apache to pass authentication headers > > > > If you are using Apache you will need to trick Apache into > passing > > authentication headers to Zope. The easiest way to do this with > Apache 1.3 > > and above is to use mod_rewrite. Here is an example of > configuration > > information which you would place in an Apache conf file: > > > > # Zope configuration maps /Zope/ to the Zope.cgi CGI script > > RewriteEngine on > > RewriteCond %{HTTP:Authorization} ^(.*) > > RewriteRule ^/Zope/(.*) /usr/local/apache/cgi-bin/Zope.cgi/$1 > [e=HTTP_CGI_AUTHORIZATION:%1,t=application/x-httpd-cgi,l] > > > > > > Note that the RewriteRule should be one long line, and that the > last character is the > letter l, not the number 1. > > > > [--end included text--] > > > > The above is relevant if you are putting the RewriteRule in the > Apache > > server config. If you're putting it in .htaccess, the easiest > thing > > to try (assuming the script is called Zope.cgi and is in the same > > > directory as the .htaccess file) is: > > > > RewriteRule ^Zope.cgi/(.*) - > [e=HTTP_CGI_AUTHORIZATION:%1,t=application/x-httpd-cgi,l] > > > > Also, make sure that there is a username and password configured > in the > > "access" file in the Zope directory. > > > > Hope this helps! > > > > Kevin > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 02:19:51PM -0600, nexusweb wrote: > > ,----- > > | We have installed Zope but can't get it to authenticate. We > have placed it > > | in Dick's account so he can play around with it and try and get > it working. > > | We really want to offer this to NexusWeb clients but are at a > wall and > > | beyond what we know how to do. > > | You can email Jason directly at jason(a)pwebtech.com he takes > care of all of > > | our server upgrades and additions. > > | Tam > > | NexusWeb Hosting and Design > > | http://www.nexusweb.net > > | > > | ---------- > > | > From: Jeff Bauer <jbauer(a)rubic.com> > > | > To: dickw(a)tkb.att.ne.jp > > | > Cc: webmaster(a)nexusweb.net; zope(a)zope.org > > | > Subject: Re: [Zope] Installation on Solaris > > | > Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 9:11 PM > > | > > > | > > I've helped convince the people at nexusweb to become a > Zope ISP. > > | > > They're pretty friendly in responding to me, most ISPs that > I talked > > | > > with flatly refused to have anything to do with Zope. > > | > > But it looks like they're having problems getting it up and > running on > > | > > a Solaris machine. > > | > > Any pointers someone can pass their way in the > installation? > > | > > > | > > Not exactly sure what the problem is. > > | > > > | > Dick, > > | > > > | > Please provide more information, or have your ISP send > > | > a problem description directly to the list. Zope runs > > | > fine on Sun Solaris. > > | > > > | > Regards, > > | > > > | > Jeff Bauer > > | > Rubicon, Inc. > > | > `----- > > > > -- > > Kevin Dangoor > > UUnet Technologies > > kid(a)ans.net / 734-214-7349 > > > >

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REQUEST.form (newbie help)
by Philip Aylesworth 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

I am having some trouble getting a list of variables sent to a DTML doc. If i use the URL http://zope/testbr?test=1 I can use  to get a value of test. What I would like to do is get a list of names and values of all variables sent. I tried:  and  These seem to give me an error. Any ideas? Phil. ----------------------------------------------------------- Philip Aylesworth mailto:purple@mnsi.net

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Re: [Zope] DTML Doc property from DTML Method in tag
by Amos Latteier 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

At 01:20 PM 2/15/99 -0600, rkw(a)dataplex.net wrote: >this is my structure: > >Folder 'HERE' has Folders within it. >Assume that they have ids ID1, ID2, ID3, etc. >Each of these Folders has a property 'common_name' > >Thus, in HERE/ID1 can reference  and get 'Name 1'. > >In HERE, I execute a form. The checkboxes build a list ids ['ID1', 'ID2']. >Processing the form, > gives me the list. > gives 'ID1' on the >first iteration. But I want to get 'Name 1' Indirection is bit confusing in DTML. Here are examples from a post I made a couple days ago which tries to explain the concept: Suppose that a DTML variable named Category is 'Expensive'. Then  is 'Expensive'. Then  is  which means . Got it? Here's one final example in Python from DocumentTemplate import HTML t=HTML(""", """) print t(foo="bar", bar="spam") which prints "bar, spam". This is analogous to Python. foo.bar is the same things as getattr(foo,'bar')  is the same thing as  In fact, you might think of the DTML underscore namespace mapping as similar to a Python __dict__ namespace mapping. So to get back to your question, > gives me the list. > gives 'ID1' on the >first iteration. But I want to get 'Name 1' You have a list of object ids. You want to iterate through the objects and print each one's common_name, correct? Here's one way to do that:    This assumes that common_name is a string attribute of each object. If common_name were a method, or a DTML method you might want to do something different, for example:      This would allow normal DTML var rendering behavior. So why the two levels of indirection? Let's see. Assume ids is ['ID1','ID2']. The first time through the loop  ==  == 'ID1' What you are looking for is the object named ID1, not the string 'ID1'. So you have to look in the DTML namespace for the object.  ==  It's a little ugly but it works. Make sense? -Amos

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(Fwd) Zope musings
by Tom Jenkins 17 Feb '99

17 Feb '99

Hi folks, We're in the process of evaluating Zope and Cold Fusion. I'm the resident Open Source advocate <g>, so I'd like to make sure that Zope has all its benefits given its due. We're, (well actually Alan is), working on a contract where the client requested Cold Fusion so he has some direct experience. We installed Principia back in December and actually are testing it for another client, but haven't spent much time with it unfortunately. Alan has brought up some usage concerns of his and I hope someone on the list could respond. Please don't think that Alan is against the product; no in fact he is very interested in it but is just unsure of the tools available to help do good work. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date sent: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:08:00 -0500 To: TomJenkins(a)zentuit.com From: Alan Johnston <flames direct to me, please [g]> Subject: Zope musings I don't know why I didn't think of this before. As you can tell from earlier comments, I like Cold Fusion studio, the IDE which allows you to control web page, database, query, and site management all in one window. It is a very slick way to create web pages in general, whether or not they include CF tags and CF queries. But there's no reason you couldn't also use CF Studio to develop Zope/DTML pages. You would have to save your pages on a local drive and use Zope's Upload feature to publish them. But that's a fairly small price in inconvenience. Anyway, the lack of a nice, user-friendly interface for web page creation is the one klunky thing about Zope (Principia) at our site. Typing angle brackets and obscure HTML tags into your browser is a fun way to astound and impress your non-HTML-literate friends, but I wouldn't have wanted to make a Georgetown/CASS questionnaire system that way. And, again, trying to use Netscape Composer, as recommended in the Principia docs is a sub-par solution. So this is really the one (only?) area I've seen so far where CF is way ahead Zope. So if we want to use Zope for real-world tasks, one important need in the near term is to find a better way to do actual web page/HTML design and link that to Zope's cool, object-database approach to Web site management and its apparent (we haven't tried it yet ... I'm going on the testimonials here) speed and technical superiority in database queries and interfaces. (CF uses ODBC ... ugh.) Ironically, using CF Studio would seem to be a good way to make that link. I wonder if there are other (free/cheap) HTML editor/site managers out there? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Tom Jenkins DevIS Linux & Samba 2.0 : The best Windows file server http://www.zdnet.com/sr/stories/issue/0,4537,2196106,00.html "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12:21

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