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zombies and popenN()
by Dennis Allison 25 May '04

25 May '04

I use htmldoc to create pdf docs out of Zope. Basically I construct the html page I want to print, and use popen3() to write the html to the htmldoc program and fetch the pdf file and error file (if any). Most of the time it works fine. But occasionally the pdf is produced, no error message produced, and a Zombie process hanging around. There seems to be some correlation with the first print operation for a session creating a zombie. The python collector has several bugs related to the interaction of threads and popenN(), but it's unclear if they apply or how one might work around the problem? or even localize the problem? I suppose the simplest workaround would be to manage the pipes and htmldoc process myself rather than delegating it to popenN().

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Zope, Plone and CA
by Brian Sullivan 25 May '04

25 May '04

Saw this: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1599309,00.asp "Computer Associates International Inc. will use its annual CA World user conference in Las Vegas on Monday to make a slew of open-source announcements, including establishing a new open-source foundation that will support Plone, an out-of-the-box content management system built on the free Zope Application server; unveiling a new open- source license, and placing a version of Ingres, CA's flagship DBMS, under it. " Anybody have any idea what is going on here?

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RE: [Zope] Zope, Plone and CA
by Passin, Tom 25 May '04

25 May '04

> From: Andy McKay [mailto:andy@clearwind.ca] > > Passin, Tom wrote: > > Plone.org has a link to a new site for the Plone Foundation, where > > there is a discussion of the new license they want to > impose, as well > > as more information on the purpose of the foundation. > > No new license is being imposed, it is an inaccuracy in the eWeek > article: http://plone.org/foundation Well, yes and no ... On the Plone Foundation site they say they are not changing the license *for now*, but they are changing the contributor's agreement - thy have been asking contributors to assign their rights back to the foundation, and they are looking at (perhaps) providing for dual licensing in the future. On the bright side, they say they plan to continue with a GPL-compatible (or at least some open source style) license forever, and hope to write language to that effect into the foundation's charter. Cheers, Tom P

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A pondering...
by Ben Last (Zope) 25 May '04

25 May '04

An acquisition-oriented question. If I have a top level directory containing HTML stuff and page templates, I usually like to keep all the images in an Images subdirectory, just for neatness, like so: Top-level-folder Images In one site, I want to have a folder per different look-and-feel, thus: Top-level-folder Images LookAndFeel1 LookAndFeel2 ...so acquisition helps me by allowing me to override specific files by putting them in a LookAndFeel folder; lots of default stuff is acquired from the Top-level-folder. This of course, includes the Images folder - if I refer to LookAndFeel1/Images, all works because Images is acquired. However, the contents of Images aren't overrideable - hence: if Top-level-folder/Images contains logo.jpg and example.jpg and I decide to override logo for LookAndFeel1 by creating its own Images and putting logo.jpg in there, as: Top-level-folder Images logo.jpg example.jpg LookAndFeel1 Images logo.jpg ...then acqusition works fine for references to /LookAndFeel1/Images/logo.jpg, but reference to LookAndFeel1/Images/example.jpg fail. I understand why; acquisition works by containment, so Images can be acquired because it exists in a container found on the way up the hierarchy, but once an Images is found, that's yer lot. Okay, I understand the behaviour - how would Zope gurus do this differently to let acquisition work for me? ben

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Re: [Zope] zope performance issues
by Trevor Warren 25 May '04

25 May '04

Hello Matt, Thanks for writing in. --- Matt Hamilton <matth(a)netsight.co.uk> wrote: > Trevor Warren wrote: > Look at the RAMCacheManager included with Zope. > This will make a big > difference. [snip] Yep matt, someone just suggested the same. Am looking at using the capability of the same towards boosting up the response times and TPS. > > >>>Dynamic Thread Management Features in Zope > You can adjust the number of threads in the > zope.conf file (for Zope 2.7). [snip] Have tried that out too. But for a 100 user with ear user performing 1 iteration with 110 threads enabled in the first round. And 70 in the second. In both the instance zope response times goes for a toss post 10 mintues of bombardment. It recovers at the end of the 15 minute test. Was hoping for atleast a sustained performance throughput. The number of threads (70-110) were kept proportional to the number of users(100). Performance degradation post 10mins of the test tleading to absymal response times. > Be careful with this. Unlike most other systems, > Zope has its own built > in object store (ZODB) and hence does not 'look' > like many other systems > that have an app server and then persist the data to > a separate SQL server. [snip] Okie captain. > hints. If you are doing something like an SQL > select from a RDBMS and > then iterating over a large result set, there are > some well known > techniques to speed things up. [snip] Here at the performance group we do have access to some excellent repositoried on tuning all kinds of apps/db servers, but i will surely get back with results of sql tests when i start them. These tests i am mentioning are short circuit tests Matt. Tests w/o any sql queries as of now. > code. One thing to mention, is that python does not > utilize multiple > processes very well. [snip] ZEO i am checking out rite now. Could you please spend some time on your current statement about python not scaling across processes. If this is the case how can we expect Zope based on python threads to scale over SMP based systems service large number of concurrent users. > Hence if you have a > multi-processor server, you > are better off running multiple ZEO clients, one for > each processor. [snip] Great..Will try out the same matt. > > > I hope this helps. If you can send us any more > information about your > test setup and benchmarks we may be able to help > more. :) [snip] You betcha. Am working on the same and will keep all of you posted on the same. Thanks a million for responding. Lets hope i am able to push zope to the wall and extract acceptable TPS values as compared to commercial offerings. Trevor > > -Matt > > > -- > Matt Hamilton > matth(a)netsight.co.uk > Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business > Vision on the Internet > http://www.netsight.co.uk > +44 (0)117 9090901 > Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | > Co-location | Hosting ===== ( >- -< ) /~\ __ Scaling FLOSS in the __ /~\ | \) / Enterprise : trevor.w(a)pvision.biz \ (/ | |_|_ \ Call Now: 9820349221 / _|_| \____________________________________/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

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RE: [Zope] Zope, Plone and CA
by Bill Etheredge 25 May '04

25 May '04

> > > > Anybody have any idea what is going on here? > > Doesn't the article tell you what is going on there..? I don't think the whole story is there-- the article ( and the news releases at www.ca.com and www.zope.org ) are very superficial at best. I was hoping for some insightful comments and information from people here. -- do you have any? [WME] Check out the new section on the Plone site for more detailed, accurate information - http://plone.org/foundation/. Bill Etheredge

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zope performance issues
by Trevor Warren 25 May '04

25 May '04

Morning Guys/Gals, I write in regards some wierd performance issues that we have been facing at work. I will illustrate the same in brief. We are a large consultancy based out of India evaluating App Servers for deployment by customers world wide. I am neither a code guru nor a zope admin guru but am getting along well with the same and work for the Performance Engineering Group here. Towards benchmarking any app server we port our "TPC-W" certified web application to the enviornment. TPC-W is based in many flavours jsp/asp and now zope_dtml. Some very simple basic transactions short-circuited(Without Sql queries) on Weblogic/Websphere give me 5-10 times the throughput that i got with simple zope pages. To illustrate the figures...i got a 30TPS(Transactions per sec) compared to a 150+TPS with weblogic/websphere. All zope code i have writte via the ZMI is very simple DTML code. Nothing fancy. Lemme tell you all that i have 5+ years on gnu/linux and worked with Red Hat. Just to let you know i am serious about the figured above and just dont want to show something in poor light. Do help me push zope to the limits and i will share the results of the benchmarks as obtained. Somethings i need to start with..... >> Caching of Objects in Zope >> Dynamic Thread Management Features in Zope >> Shared pool connection management for SQL queries >> Tuning Documents >> Monitoring of current instance >> Capability to pump test load across numerous Zope Servers(If none of the above work) Appreciate any feedback on the same fellas. Trevor ===== ( >- -< ) /~\ __ Scaling FLOSS in the __ /~\ | \) / Enterprise : trevor.w(a)pvision.biz \ (/ | |_|_ \ Call Now: 9820349221 / _|_| \____________________________________/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

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Re: [Zope] Architectural decisions
by Peter Bengtsson 25 May '04

25 May '04

I don't know of a "definitive listing" but try to have as a rule of thumb to never use getattr or hasattr in TAL. If you find yourself doing so you know you've gone to far without refactoring into python scripts. The most advanced luxury I afford myself in TAL is python:test() or python:path() You can also make it a habit to set aside Python scripts in a certain fashion just to support your TAL. You could for example name all the python scripts something like "evaluateEnvironment_4tal" and then be able to do something like this in TAL. <div tal:condition="here/evaluateEnvironment_4tal">foo bar</div> Peter Ben Last (Zope) wrote: >>From: Peter Bengtsson [mailto:mail@peterbe.com] >><h2 tal:content="python:path('here/%s/environment'%request['partner'])"> >> >> >Beautifully elegant, Peter, thanks :) >Now I shall write 100 times; "I must remember to invoke Python more >often..." And thanks to Matt also for the python script reference. > >Something I'm finding *slightly* annoying is the mix of Python semantics in >Zope. In some places, one uses: >object['attributeName'] >...and in others: >getattr(object, 'attributeName') >...depending, of course, on the type of object with which one is provided. >In one Python script I had, one container appeared to work the first way and >another the second. ZPT seems to work it out every time. Is there a >definitive listing of what things are treatable as dicts and which as >objects? > >ben > > > > > -- Peter Bengtsson, http://www.peterbe.com

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RE: [Zope] Zope, Plone and CA
by Passin, Tom 25 May '04

25 May '04

> Behalf Of Jens Vagelpohl > > Saw this: > > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1599309,00.asp > > > > "Computer Associates International Inc. will use its annual CA World > > user > > conference in Las Vegas on Monday to make a slew of open-source > > announcements, including establishing a new open-source foundation > > that will > > support Plone, an out-of-the-box content management system built on > > the free > > Zope Application server; unveiling a new open- source license, and > > placing a > > version of Ingres, CA's flagship DBMS, under it. " > > > > > > > > Anybody have any idea what is going on here? > > Doesn't the article tell you what is going on there..? Plone.org has a link to a new site for the Plone Foundation, where there is a discussion of the new license they want to impose, as well as more information on the purpose of the foundation. Cheers, Tom P

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Good Object-Oriented Design Approaches For Zope Development?
by Allan Miller 25 May '04

25 May '04

Hello Everyone, I am VERY new to Zope development, having come from a mainstream Java Struts and Perl CGI web development background. I've been looking at the source code for various Zope Products and applications, and haven't seen a lot of classes used. The applications and Products I've seen define one or two application or Product classes, and consist of a lot of ZPT's that are essentially forms paired with, or posting to, PythonScripts. I wonder - am I missing something? It seems like the applications are organized almost exclusively around ZPT's and PythonScripts, with no use of business objects/classes, for example. Is this the unusual approach? Can anyone point me towards some applications that are considered well designed - make good use of programmer defined (espcially domain) classes? How about some articles on good Zope application design practices? Thanks!

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