June 1999 - Zope - Zope lists

looking for testers of a slashdot-clone zope product
by Butch Landingin 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

Hi ya all, I've written a slashdot-like zope product and it's almost ready to be put into the contrib page, but it needs two things before it's ready to go: 1) it's packaged in a zip format, not the tgz format that all the other zope products are packaged in -- if you can help me do the conversion or do it yourself, I'd like to hear from you; and 2) a last minute sanity check -- I need a couple of people to just install the package on their zope sites and check to see if it at least isn't broken when they install it. It uses Ty Sarna's TinyTable product so you should have that working on your setup if you plan to volunteer. I've tested it on version 1.10.2 and 1.11.0pr of Zope, but I'm hoping it should work fine on Zope2 versions as well. It would also work without the TinyTable product, but with some loss of configurability, so I'd rather have it tested with that functionality intact. If you want to volunteer, just send me some email, and I'll pick the first couple of people who replies, and send them the package. I'd rather not clutter this mailing list with the actual package, because its about 154K in size. I'll probably request to put in the contrib page after the conversion and sanity checking, so it should be available (barring any unforeseen barriers) to Juan and Alice in a few days. Best Regards, Butch Landingin butchland(a)yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [Zope] FYI: Portal Toolkit Slides and Demo available
by Chris Blackall 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

>Just to reiterate, the Portal Toolkit is not yet available, it should be >out in beta this month. Amos, This is very timely development for me and I can't wait to access it. Congratulations to the Zope team. About, http://www.zope.org/Products/PortalToolkit/Tour/Images/demo5.gif The advanced search in the demo allows for a focused search of Zope catalogue items, great, but could the metadata schema or search categories be extended to include Dublin Core(DC) Metadata standard? see http://purl.oclc.org/dc/ Although there are 13 elements in the DC standard, technically none are required, however using DC tags enables more accurate distributed searches and the possibility of an external (to the Zope DB) metadata repository that would have a namespace that conformed to a *standard* and was indexable by external webbots, agents etc. or addressable by a distributed search protocol such as Z39.50. see http://lcweb.loc.gov/z3950/agency/ I believe the incorporation of search facilities BETWEEN Zope portals (in future versions) would add a great deal of value to the proposed portal system. Just don't ask me to build one!! Regards __________________________________ Chris Blackall Graduate House Australian National University Canberra, ACT 0261 email: s3190067(a)student.anu.edu.au phone: 61 + 2 + 62467428 ANU ext: 7428 __________________________________

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Re: [Zope] FYI: Portal Toolkit Slides and Demo available
by Andrew M. Kuchling 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

Amos Latteier writes: >Just to reiterate, the Portal Toolkit is not yet available, it should be >out in beta this month. Waiting on tenterhooks... Yesterday I read Philip Greenspun's book on Web publishing (http://www.photo.net/wtr/thebook/) and much of what he suggests seems like a natural fit to the Portal Toolkit. I'd recommend everyone check it out; the complete book is on-line, though it's well worth buying just for entertainment value. I've never pushed strongly for using Zope on our Web site (www.mems-exchange.org) for a few reasons: 1) Another programmer had already done some work with Java servlets, so we have some servlets to do various things. However, I've found that Java is really awful and cumbersome for Web programming. (But without automatic reloading of ExternalMethods, Zope isn't much *less* cumbersome for tasks that can't be handled in DTML.) 2) A fair amount of source code reading is still required, and Zope is so full of cutting-edge Python technique that it's not easy even for a long-time Python like me; for a new Python user, it would be deadly. 3) I still haven't really figured out what the idioms are for implementing complicated forms. DTML is sufficient for simple forms with 2 or 3 fields, but if you have a 22-field form with complicated interactions between fields, DTML won't cut it. At DC, do you write ExternalMethods for such purposes, or full-blown products? How do you debug them without going insane from manually reloading ExternalMethods all the time? However, the Portal Toolkit may well prove to be the wedge for getting Zope on the site. I've already done a few simple Java servlets for registering users and presenting customized pages for a user, the intention being to turn www.mems-exchange.org into a specialized portal aimed at MEMS researchers and users of our virtual fab. People would have a single page which listed all of their ongoing jobs, recent status changes ("Your etch step #4 has completed; click here for metrology data"), MEMS news of interest to them, and similar info. If the Portal Toolkit could be used for this, it would save a *tremendous* amount of effort and wheel-reinventing. if you need someone to try out an alpha, let me know... -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.python.net/crew/amk/ Three hundred years of tears have soured the very stones of this house. Drink deep, gentle reader: you have come too far to turn back now. -- Bethlehem Hospital, or Bedlam, in SEBASTIAN O #1

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Re: [Zope] FYI: Portal Toolkit Slides and Demo available
by Simon Michael 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

"Robert O'Connor" <bob(a)rocnet.com> writes: > Real Audio (G2) may be good because we could get > to hear your voice but the video portion may not be > as good quality as the Ani GIFS. Also, If you do G2 can play a sequence of gifs or jpegs as a slideshow, with transition/scrolling/zooming effects (RealPix).

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ANN: New category in ODP
by Michael Bernstein 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

Greetings fellow Zophisticates, I have just added a new 'Zope/Presentations' sub-category to the Open Directory Project, in http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Internet/Servers/Application/Zope/Pr… It currently contains links to the talk given at the WWW8 and the ZPT demonstration. Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to invite the members of this list to add URL's to the directory if we've missed any (you don't have to be registered as an editor), and please check out the Open Source ( http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Open_Source/ ) and the Application Server ( http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Internet/Servers/Application/ ) categories, as well. Keep on Zoping! Michael Bernstein (webmaven).

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Convenient way to trace calls thru Zope 2.0a?
by Alex.Thomas＠dresdnerkb.com 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

So I can understand Zope a bit better and debug new things, what tips can you give concerning starting ZServer in the Python debugger? I can get it going as per normal but is there any particular way to handle threads, avoid timeouts etc.? Maybe there's a start-in-debug script around? (on Unix here, with Xemacs etc.) cheers Alex ----- ########################################## This email, its content and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be legally privileged and/or confidential. Access by any other party is unauthorised without the express written permission of the sender. If you have received this email in error you may not copy or use the contents, attachments or information in any way. Please destroy it and contact the sender on the number printed above, via the Dresdner Kleinwort Benson switchboard on +44 171 623 8000 or via e-mail return. Internet communications are not secure unless protected using strong cryptography. This email has been prepared using information believed by the author to be reliable and accurate, but Dresdner Kleinwort Benson makes no warranty as to accuracy or completeness. In particular Dresdner Kleinwort Benson does not accept responsibility for changes made to this email after it was sent. Any opinions expressed in this document are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Bank or its affiliates. They may be subject to change without notice. ##########################################

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RE: [Zope] Running ZopeHTTPServer and PCGI together = a bad thing ?
by Chris Petrilli 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

> The usability win is available *if* pcgi is no longer > required to control activation of the LRP. If we > limit the short-term solution to the following conditions, > we can probably have some working code in short order: > > 1) LRP is started manually I think this is a fair assumption. We've talked, and we can offer that at least a preliminary ultra-alpha version of ZDaemon could be made available as soon as an alpha mod_pcgi is available. This would just be for testing and working out some problems, not for production use obviously. > 2) mod_pcgi is only responsible for communicating to a > single (Zope) LRP. Um, why not have a small configuration variable that can be put in httpd.conf that controls what it talks to? At least port wise. > Otherwise, difficulties in getting pcgi to work with > Apache may actually become *more* frustrating to debug. > At least until we have ZDaemon and pcgi <-> LRP > negotiation in place. :-) Chris

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RE: [Zope] (116) unable to connect, fd=3
by Michel Pelletier 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Hawes [mailto:tim.hawes@ncmail.net] > Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 12:02 PM > To: jeffbauer(a)bigfoot.com > Cc: Michel Pelletier; zope(a)zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] (116) unable to connect, fd=3 > > > Jeff Bauer wrote: > > > > > Question: When you started ZPublisher manually, did you get > > any spewed output to stdout/stderr? > > > > No. It started without any complaint nor comment. > Uhm.. ok I've reached the end of my rope. Can you try using a different SMTP server? simplifying your DTML even further so that it contains no s, just sends a simple message? If that works, slowly plugging things back in till it breaks? -Michel > > -- > > Tim Hawes > tim.hawes(a)ncmail.net > > >

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RE: [Zope] KnotMail, Portal Toolkit, WebDAV --Best Collaboration
by Michel Pelletier 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Robert O'Connor [mailto:bob@rocnet.com] > Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 12:13 PM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] KnotMail, Portal Toolkit, WebDAV --Best Collaboration > > Hopefully there are plans to "Walk the walk" with the Portal > Toolkit for the Zope community. By this I mean, Subscribers > to this mail list (and others) should be able to "Become a Member... > by visiting a Zope portal home page..." > > What are the best ways to collaborate? > Currently we have 3 zope mail lists that are also mirrored > on the web based http://www.egroups.com/list/zope/ > > Can the ZOPE community benefit from actually using > the Portal Toolkit for our collaboration here? > This is to be seen. We really hope so. > ***--- > > So far, I prefer mail lists because I can organize them into > folders and search using my EMail Client. I see a benefit > and occasionally use the web based egroups copy when > I'm not at my primary computer. > > It looks like the product KnotMail, shown as part of the > Portal toolkit could perform many if not all the functionality > of my e-mail client but be on THE server so I can access > it anywhere with any browser. > > *Are there specs for KnotMail? KnotMail is a stateless (ok, there's a bit of connection caching that could be called 'state'), thin IMAP client. > -Can mail automatically be routed to specific folders? If your IMAP server can be configured to do this, then yes. There is no interface in KnotMail to do it, however. Mail transport issues are not dealt with. I guess this could be kludged by having Knotmail sniff the inbox anytime it's select()ed and do various imap move() calls to shuffle it around, this would probably add a noticeable overhead to clicking on your inbox. > -Can mail messages be moved, copied or flagged? Yep. This is part of the IMAP spec. Although what 'flagging' means is (client) implimentation specific. > -Can full text searches be performed on mail (subject & > body) and limited by date? Yep. The speed/ability of this is implimentation dependant. Cyrus does it well, wu_imap does it fairly well, god knows what Exchange does, but it works. > -Can I maintain a ".mailproto" file so I can > BOUNCE From SpamKing(a)aol.com > DISCARD From sales(a)competitor.com > FORWARD To . bob(a)rocnet.com I don't think this is addressed in the IMAP spec. If it's not in the IMAP RFC (I believe it's RFC2060) then KnotMail doesn't do it. This is, once again, a transport issue. > > Currently I can flag messages of interest. What about > multiple flags, what about viewing messages in threaded > order? IMAP messages can be arbitrarily 'flagged' with either permenant or session specific flags. I have not delved into this much, other than using some of the convienient flags, like \Seen and \Answered. There are others though, and you can make your own, see section 2.3.2 and 6.4.6 of the RFC. IMAP servers do not thread, it is up to the client to present a 'view' of the data. This includes threading. I have not tackled that beast in KnotMail yet. > > What about mail list messages that remain on the server In IMAP, everything remains on the server. The client does not store messages (other than perhaps to cache them, either way, the server is authoritative) > that allow me to mark my personal view of messages > into various categories: (Example:) > 1)Total Trash -- I never want to see it again or any > future messages from ___ > 2) Total Trash -- I never want to see it again > 2) Keep in distant archive > 3) Keep - reference > 3) Keep - Interesting > 4) Important - Keep in current folder > I guess this could be done with specific flags. > ***--- > Some Mail could evolve into a slashdot.org type format such > as Story and Comments. I really like the way that comments > are moderated and promoted and demoted on a scale > -1,0,1,2,3,4,5 Then, a user can set a threshold so that only > the "best" messages (just 4's and 5's for example) are viewed. > This can be certainly done with the PTK framework. It would require only implimentation. > ***--- > WebDav has been discussed but this seems to have a place > when collaborating on documentation but not for general discussion. > (I admit to knowing little about WebDav and would love to see > a working example) > It will find it's niche, it's still an infant protocol. -Michel

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RE: [Zope] KnotMail, Portal Toolkit, WebDAV --Best Collaboration
by Chris Petrilli 04 Jun '99

04 Jun '99

Everything below should be taken with a grain of salt, and a lot of handwaving, but it's at least the "vision" I was preaching at Linux Expo. > I'm excited to see that the Zope Portal Toolkit will be here soon. > http://www.zope.org/Products/PortalToolkit/Tour/ Please understand this will be EARLY EARLY access, and many things (the Catalog especially) are subject to huge architectural changes. In UnifiedSpeak, we are only now just beginning the elaboration phase. > Hopefully there are plans to "Walk the walk" with the Portal > Toolkit for the Zope community. By this I mean, Subscribers > to this mail list (and others) should be able to "Become a Member... > by visiting a Zope portal home page..." This is definitely the goal of the new Zope site that we have been thinking about... what features it includes initially are subject to change. > ***--- > > So far, I prefer mail lists because I can organize them into > folders and search using my EMail Client. I see a benefit > and occasionally use the web based egroups copy when > I'm not at my primary computer. There has been some handwaving (mostly by myself, but also by Ken) about connecting Mailman and Zope together, and using Zope as a repository for archives, but also providing access via NNTP. This however, isn't even on the "to do list" or even the "things to consider putting on the to do list", so don't hold your breath. Adding support shouldn't be that bad, but ... someone's gotta write the code. > It looks like the product KnotMail, shown as part of the > Portal toolkit could perform many if not all the functionality > of my e-mail client but be on THE server so I can access > it anywhere with any browser. KnotMail is a very basic interface to an IMAP repository, it's not intended to be a full function client. It's just a "proof of concept" at this point. Someone is welcome to take the idea further, it was just a small GUI put together by Michel to show off his IMAPAdapter, but is hardly aimed as a full function live and breath Web mail client. It's missing 90% of the features you'd need for that. Having said that, please feel free to add features ;-) > ***--- > Some Mail could evolve into a slashdot.org type format such > as Story and Comments. I really like the way that comments > are moderated and promoted and demoted on a scale > -1,0,1,2,3,4,5 Then, a user can set a threshold so that only > the "best" messages (just 4's and 5's for example) are viewed. This is what the "Tracker" is for... I don't know if Tracker will make it out soon or not, it's functional, but not "feature complete" or even that stable at this point. It provides the concept of projects and items and tracking work on those items. It's very cool, but it's got a ways to go. > ***--- > WebDAV has been discussed but this seems to have a place > when collaborating on documentation but not for general discussion. > (I admit to knowing little about WebDAV and would love to see > a working example) WebDAV is great, except for the fact that there are no really good clients ;-) Microsoft has one in IE5, and theoretically in Office2000, but they've not even written a server yet, and until there's a full Class 2 client to go with it, it's really not something I'd shove into my business process for anything beyond basic updates. Just some noise...please understand that DC is not short of ideas, nor is the Zope community... we are simply short of people willing to contribute code to bring those ideas to fruition. The more the community pitches in to actually create functional products, the more the community benefits. Chris

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