August 1999 - Zope - Zope lists

Re: [Zope] INSERT/UPDATE in SQL methods
by Joachim Schmitz 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

On Tue, 17 Aug 1999, Anthony Baxter wrote: > >>> Joachim Schmitz wrote > > I want to write a general ZSQL method like this: > > > Where EinAusgabe is a TinyTable describing the field for the form like > > this: > > columns: > > name label ftype length:int default auto > > heck, why not store this in a DB as well? you can then just use the > database's introspection facilities to figure out what type the column > is. :) > > Anthony > Yes that's in the making :) Gruß Joachim Schmitz WWW-Consultant email: js(a)ac-copy.net tel: +49-241-89491-0 fax: +49-241-89491-29

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RE: [Zope] Looping in DTML
by Michel Pelletier 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Tony McDonald [mailto:tony.mcdonald@ncl.ac.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 6:38 AM > To: Andreas Kostyrka > Cc: Zope List > Subject: Re: [Zope] Looping in DTML > > > >using *that* function... > >Well, I'm not sure that the 1000 limit does any good ;) > ><dtml-in "_.range(999)"> > > <dtml-let out=sequence-item> > > <dtml-in "_.range(999)"> > > <dtml-var "out*999+_['sequence-item']"><BR> > > </dtml-in> > ></dtml-in> > > > >Andreas > > ahhh... good point! :) It does have the added protection of not letting some newbie range() gazillions of objects. If you're clever enough to use range() in this way, then you are welcome to extend it's 'range' by up to powers of one thousand as much as you'd like. It also aint pretty. ;) -Michel > ------ > Dr Tony McDonald, FMCC, Networked Learning Environments Project > http://nle.ncl.ac.uk/ > The Medical School, Newcastle University Tel: +44 191 222 5888 > Fingerprint: 3450 876D FA41 B926 D3DD F8C3 F2D0 C3B9 8B38 18A2 > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (To receive general Zope announcements, see: > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > For developer-specific issues, zope-dev(a)zope.org - > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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Re: [Zope] Giving up in frustration
by Paul Boddie 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

Joe Grace <occam(a)serv.net> wrote: [...] > The novice's job is to get up to speed as rapidly as possible with all > the basics so that s/he can really get stuff done as soon as possible. > That's the best support Zope can ask for from newbies. > > Unfortunately, without up-to-date and complete basic documentation, > that's very difficult. The basic documentation issue is probably the most important thing. Until now I hadn't played with Zope 2 at all, apart from a download of an alpha a few months ago, but I have been playing extensively with the Zope 1 series. In addition, one's definition of the basic documentation is going to depend on where one comes from: I came to Zope through its predecessors and really wanted good documentation on DTML and product development. > I've wasted *days* due to oversights in Zope documentation. I didn't > know enough to know that something was missing, but I did know I was new > to Zope and had no right to believe Zope had bugs in such basic stuff > (which it didn't). Eventually, I came around to questioning the > documentation. [...] > Now, I'm trying to upgrade to another level of Zope knowledge, and I > know the docs are incomplete (from my previous experience with them and > now that I know enough to wonder "Where did you say that file belongs? > Doh, you didn't.") I have noted in the past that the documentation, whilst very persuasive on the merits of Zope and rather in-depth in describing some of the mechanisms involved, frequently omitted to tell the reader the most elementary starting-off details such as where to put files and how to get Zope to recognise them. > Ok, here's one big suggestion for Zope. Include in the initial Zope > database, all the example projects from the docs (but in a sample > directory which won't get in the way of trying to install the > documentation examples as written). That way, newbies don't have to > learn how to put the projects in the database before experimenting with > them. Also, if the installation goes wrong, the newbies have a running > example to compare against to see where they went wrong. Then document > the heck out of the installation procedure. Also, create all the file > system directories necessary for the documentation projects to be used, > e.g., Extensions, etc, as part of the basic Zope installation. Finally > put README's in those directories explaining what the files there are > for (samples, examples, etc., and links to relevant documentation). A good idea. It is to an extent a little sad that the best way of creating products implementing, for example, DTML tags is to copy an existing product and then to start cutting and pasting source code. With some constructive documentation to hand giving good advice on how to put things in the different directories, possibly with some template files hinting at how the different ways of extending Zope can be built "from scratch", I think we could get past this stage. Paul

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Problem with Zope and Proxy server
by Duncan Booth 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

I do most of my network access through a firewall with a Netscape Suitespot Proxy server and I now have a Zope 2.0 Beta 3 system set up outside the firewall. Mostly it works fine, but I find that attempting to submit a form with a POST method always fails with Error 400 (Not Found). This happens with any form I create but only if I use POST (changing the submit method to GET and it all works fine) and only if I access Zope via the proxy. The problem seems to be with the Netscape Proxy server interpreting the result from Zope as any side-effects on the Zope server do happen. Can anyone suggest what is happening here?

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Thanks! .... and a util to look at a property of a mirror branch from the original branch.
by 이관수 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

Really thanks a lot for your hints & suggestions, although this bonehead failed to follow the suggestions. Strangely, michel's, John's and Anthony's suggestion did not work on my Zope site. Now I wonder whether this is due to the difference between Zope 1.10.3 and Zope2.0x. Zope 1.10.3 gave me lots of tracebacks excepted from careful_getitem in DT_Util.py ;--( But, unable to distinguish the bug in my head and the feature in Zope, I fell upon the external method, instead of going th Collector. For a newbie or a more-boner head than mine, its code is at the bottom (hence nobody might use them, hughhh). Thanks again for your concerns, LEE Kwan Soo. ***** An external method to inspect TR property of the corresponding DTML Document or Folder in the mirror branch. Usage:  If you call this method in the DTML Document /korean/aaa/bbb/ccc/ddd, it inspect the TR property of /english/aaa/bbb/ccc/ddd and returns its value. If there is no TR property then it is set to '0'. When called in the DTML Method /korean/aaa/bbb/ccc/mmm, It returns and, if needed, set the TR value of the Folder /english/aaa/bbb/ccc. / (root) is the Zope root folder. ***** from string import split def isTRed(self, REQUEST): ulist = split(REQUEST.URL0, '/')[4:] # if your Zope root folder is /Zope, replace 4 with 5. if ulist[-1] in self.objectIds(['DTML Document']): pass #see whether called in DDoc or DMet. else: ulist = ulist[:-1] obj = REQUEST.PARENTS[-1].english #obj is the *mirror* branch. use your folder id # instead of 'english'. # Is there a guru's way to refer to the root object in an external method? for i in range(len(ulist)): #walked down in the *mirror* branch. xobj = getattr(obj, ulist[i]) obj = xobj if hasattr(obj, 'TR'): pass #chech if the obj(DDoc or Folder) has TR. use your property else: # ID here. obj.manage_addProperty('TR', '0', 'string') #if not, set TR property. use your property return obj.TR #ID & default value, type here. ***** If any body use this external method, please improve this to prove mine is the bonest head in Zopeland.

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RE: [Zope] server capabilities
by Rob Page 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

> My question is: what capabilities does this PC needs? > > what advice can you give concerning the processor, memory > (how much?), Hard > disk (how much? SCSI/IDE?) How many people are on your intranet and how much business would you like the server to handle? --Rob

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RE: [Zope] ANN: A SQLPackage
by Tom Deprez 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

> Hi Zopers, > > for my work with Zope, covering the development of > tools that interacts quite heavily with SQL dbs, I > have written a set of DTML +SQL Methods that > allows to build the basic of a > insert/update/delete interface. Interested indeed! Problem is, I don't understand italian :-( Tom.

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server capabilities
by Tom Deprez 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

Hi, I'm asking you web-gurus for some information concerning the 'capabilities' for a server. I'm at the stage of buying a new PC for Zope and a Database. This PC will be used for the intranet and will contain Linux, Zope and the Database. Other users will be capable of accessing Zope through browser over the intranet. My question is: what capabilities does this PC needs? what advice can you give concerning the processor, memory (how much?), Hard disk (how much? SCSI/IDE?) All advice is welcome!!! Thanks in advance. Tom.

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FW: [Zope] _Very Long_ Giving up in frustration
by Hadar Pedhazur 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

I am forwarding this with Brad's permission. It's long, but it is instructive as well. The real point (to me) is that each new user in Zope-land has a unique interest/need to get a particular part of Zope's stuff going for them. In Brad's case it was updating and inserting in ZSQL Methods. This created what I hope was a healthy discussion/admission regarding the current state of documentation, and a variety of things that can and should be done to correct that. Again, I thank Brad for opening up this discussion, and for allowing me to forward this email. P.S. If anyone has good working examples of updating database records using ZSQL Methods, don't be shy, they will be much appreciated (at least by one person on this list :-). -----Original Message----- From: Bradford Hull [mailto:brad@tera.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 5:40 PM To: Hadar Pedhazur Subject: Re: [Zope] Giving up in frustration > Bradford wrote: > > This is unusual, I realize, but I'm going to tell you why > > I'm giving up on Zope now. > > [I'm snipping most of your post, because you say the cogent > part above, and follow it up with a plea for better > documentation]. > > I am very sorry to see you go. We all understand and feel > for your frustration. We hate to lose even a single person > because of a stupid reason like this, but alas, it is a > chicken and egg problem. We are building a large and complex > system, all at our own risk. We give it away, and support > the hell out of it, and yes, documentation lags (sometimes > too much). I understand documentation lagging; you're getting great stuff accomplished. From my example, though, you can see that the documentation is also necessary to succeed to the degree you deserve. > > However, there are a few questions that I would appreciate > you responding to before you disappear forever. Since you > saw the promise of Zope, perhaps you could spare a few last > minutes to help us understand some of the problems. I'll key > most of my questions off your next question (remember, I > deleted an awful lot in between...). > > > People! Write some getting-started documentation! Write > > an FAQ file! > > Did you find the FAQ at http://zdp.zope.org ? If not, why > not? Was the ZDP effort too hidden? > The FAQ file did not come close to the area where I was going mad with frustration. I wanted to be able to present data, which is covered well and thoroughly. I am also responsible for making methods available to collect and maintain the data, and no hint on where to start appeared anywhere. ZSQL methods seemed to clearly only allow "select" statements; when I put in an update, insert or delete, they made a big ugly mess with error returns. After I asked for help, a couple kind souls told me they work anyway. In the 2.0 beta, if I refer to one from dtml, they put up their little generated dtml screen after mine and re-require the data I already gave them, and then I have not been able to verify that it actually got in the database. Thus, I have spent 3 times as long as I have ever had to on any other system, memorizing all available info, and can't update or insert or delete a single row in a single-column file. The FAQ was not obvious enough, in my opinion, but it's sort of slight right now anyway. What I'd like to see is some place the basic assumptions are answered. When I install Zope I am installing probably 35 directories. Then the documentation says to add Extensions to the Zope directory. There are a _lot_ of ways to interpret that. > You were specifically interested in External Methods, and in > Z SQL Methods. Do you feel that this should be covered in > "getting-started documentation"? Can't 99% of Zope users > safely ignore the concept of External Methods? > It looks like that might be true, but in my search for any kind of clue about how to update database fields, it looked like the only thing that had not been ruled out, since ZSQL had so efficiently convinced me it would only do select statements. > Online on Zope.org, is the following: > > "To use an External Method, you need to place your Python > source code file in the 'Extensions' directory in of your > Zope directory (you may need to create this directory), or > in an Extensions directory inside a Product directory, > e.g. lib/python/Products/MyProduct/Extensions." > > You complained that you didn't know what directory the > "Extensions" directory should be created in. You got your > answer by asking the list. Was the documentation so far off > that you couldn't have suggested (via the Collector, ZDP, an > email to info(a)digicool.com, support(a)digicool.com, etc.), > that this simple additional one-liner be added to the > documentation? > > (Whoops, I see some grammatical errors in our online docs > too...) > We need more than a one liner to make up for there being no bread crumbs anywhere for somebody to follow that wants to update their data. You should put in a chapter in the dtml book and at least a page in the ZSQL guide indicating the things I needed to know and could not find. At least, I'm assuming they're there; the help I got was credible, even if the results were disappointing. > > And for God's sake, don't write a patronizing letter about > > "Does Tera have money to spend?" to a person who's trying > > to evaluate whether something is worth spending money > > on... > > You are correct. That's not the correct answer for your > problem. However, do you begrudge us the opportunity to stay > in business at least long enough to get the docs right? I > hope not. Most of the answers relating to "Pay Digital to do > it" relate to people who are looking for additional features > in Zope. Since Zope is pretty powerful already, and we > constantly add new stuff to the free base anyway, individual > desires can and should be supplemented by paying customers > (at least IMHO). > I'd like to spend money supporting the company that makes something this promising, but I have to have a case I can take to my management. Any client that comes with money will first have to have figured out how to do enough to realize Zope's potential; I just saw it without being able to use it because this whole effort is so much like things I have tried to do in the past. > Today, it's Monday. As recently as Friday, you wrote: > > > I'll be delighted to help make documentation improvements, > > because if it is this great, it deserves to be useable by > > everybody. Frankly, the documentation as it stands is > > great marketing material, but maddening if you want to > > insert and update data in a database, or indeed add/update > > data at all. > > I guess you thought better of helping the community (and > yourself) out over the weekend. Too bad. Someone with your > qualities: > > "I'm experienced, quick-witted, hard-working, dogged and > persistent." > > could have added a laser-like focus to the sections that > most need updating. > I can only document things I can figure out; otherwise, I'd be doggedly writing for you. In fact, if my rant gets me enough hopeful looking information, I'll probably install zope at home and fight through this impasse in my spare time so I can help with this; I hate to give up on such a good idea. I want you to succeed, and to make money, as I said, I just couldn't spend the time at work when I'm only hitting barriers, and never any clear sailing. > (giving-up-wistfully-and-will-check-back-regularly)-ly yours, > > I hope so. And again, if you can take a few more minutes to > answer some of the above questions, I know that I will > personally be grateful to you, and I suspect so will the > rest of Digital Creations. > > Thanks again for taking a look at Zope. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings after all the great work you've done. It's a thing I often end up doing: pointing out the other thing you also have to do. Makes me unpopular in church committees. I suppose that must be why I do it :-) You folks are going to be rich if you don't die of stress, I'm convinced - this idea is the right thing at the right time. I'll probably be back on the bandwagon in a couple of months. If you'll tell me how to hook a ZSQL method for insert/update to dtml, I'll jump back on now and start that chapter. I'm not busy tonight... -- Bradford K. Hull | Do not be fanatical in your dedication to reason. brad(a)tera.com | Anne Rice, "Pandora" (206)701-2066 |

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Re: [Zope] FYI: Searching the mailing lists
by Alastair Burt 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

Anthony Pfrunder <s341625(a)student.uq.edu.au> writes: > The Zope mailing list is fully searchable at egroups. Simply go to: > > http://www.egroups.com/group/zope > > And sign up ;) Does this actually work? Yesterday, I tried searching for "+zcatalog +tutorial". It returned no matches. Yet the announcement for ZCatalog[1] clearly contained both strings [2]. --- Alastair Footnotes: [1] http://www.egroups.com/group/zope/6977.html? [2] The tutorial for ZCatalog can actually be found in http://www.zope.org/Download/ZCatalog, even though ZCatalog is now part of the Zope beta distribution and you no longer need to go to that page to download it. As someone else has pointed out, it is not so much that the documentation does not exist but that you have to be quite resourceful to find it.

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