September 1999 - Zope

Re: [Zope] CRM and Zope
by Anthony Baxter 08 Sep '99

08 Sep '99

>>> Bjorn Stabell wrote > We're currently evaluating customer relationship management (CRM) > solutions for future projects. The main contenders are BroadVision > and Vignette so far, but it's hard to navigate the forest of CRM > solutions. I've built a simple customer system here in Zope, which is gradually accreting new features. It was amazingly easy to do. > I am, however, concerned with Zope's maturity and comprehensiveness > compared to current state-of-the-art commercial solutions. I'd like > to hear other people's opinions as well. While it's not as full-featured out of the box, that it's so easy to work with, and you get source, more than make up for this (imho). Trying to build your absolutely critical business processes using hard-to-modify commercial software is (to me) foolish. Unless your business conforms to one of the preset notions that the software vendor had in mind, you're going to be severely constrained. > 1) Work-flow. Zope doesn't seem to have any inherent work-flow > capabilities, so I guess that'll have to be developed? Is anyone > working on tools and toolkits for this? I've refrained from pre-announcing this, but seeing as it's come up - I hope to have an initial workflow system in Zope available "soon". > 2) Personalization. Again, this can undoubtably be developed in Zope, > but is anyone working on toolkits to lift the personalization features > to a higher level? Something similar to Vignette's self-learning > ability (and collaborative filtering like NetPerceptions), and having > a business layer that allows business types to do targeting is also > useful. I'm not sure what you mean here - can you be more specific? Are you talking about users of the system getting customis(ed,able) views of the data? The Zope PTK (*nudges DC*) should be a huge help here. > 3) Content management. With big websites you need content management > systems that'll help you keep the content consistent and up-to-date. > Again, this will have to be developed in Zope. A lot of the basics for this are already there - you can delegate the content management out to your heart's content, then give the responsible users either access to the management screens, or ftp/webdav access. I have a production system where the content is being maintained by both graphic design/wordsmith types and also by techies. It seems to work well. > 4) Scalability. How scalable is Zope when it comes to handling many > requests, and how does it perform when the database grows? Are there > any inherent limitations? I'll let others answer this. It's a fairly common query on the list - you might want to check the mailing list archive for more. > 5) Replication, distribution. Can the Zope database be replicated and > the copies kept synchronized? If not, does anyone have an idea how > much work it'll be to develop this in Zope (it should be possible to > do this at a pretty low level, transparently, just above the object > database layer). I did some work on this earlier this year, with a "master Zope" that was used for management and editing, and "child Zope"s that actually served up the data. The children would run in read-only mode - when I wanted to push out a change, I'd copy the Data.fs file, then restart the children. This of course meant only one-way distribution of changes. There were a number of ways to improve this, including just pushing out the new entries in the Data.fs file. I've been thinking on occasion about how you'd distribute around changes from a number of Zope installations to each other (so, without a master). It's probably something that could be developed as something outside Zope. > The good news is that Zope is already so flexible that I think it > won't take much work, relatively speaking, to develop modules that'll > lift Zope up to the same level as commercial solutions. Any efforts > going on already? Sure. :)

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Fw: [Zope] view_source???
by Kevin Dangoor 08 Sep '99

08 Sep '99

I should've copied the list on this. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Dangoor <kid(a)kendermedia.com> To: Francisco Sam Castillo <fsam(a)proyecto-web.com.mx> Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] view_source??? >-----Original Message----- >From: Francisco Sam Castillo <fsam(a)proyecto-web.com.mx> >To: Kevin Dangoor <kid(a)kendermedia.com> >Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 7:18 PM >Subject: RE: [Zope] view_source??? > > >>.... >>> Here was the result: >>> >>>  >>> <pre> >>>  >>> </pre> >>> >>>  >>> >>>  >>> >> >>Yes you all are right I was lost because I was looking on the zope old site >>and, know I got it thanks so much, >>I have one more question it might be to simple but fur me it is not, has >>anyone setup the rate option of the KMnetNews script I made a form and send >>the result to the rate method but it replies with an error: >> >>Error Tipo: TypeError >>Error Valor: number coercion failed >> >>I made it like normal html form is there where my mistake is? > >I should do a better job documenting this part of things. > >Here is the form I use at byproducts.com > ><form action=rate method=post> ><center> ><table> ><tr><td>Boring</td><td> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=0> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=1> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=2> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=3> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=4> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=5> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=6> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=7> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=8> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=9> ><input type=radio name="newpoints:int" value=10> ></td><td>Rolling on the Floor</td></tr> ><tr><td> </td><td align=center><input type=submit value="Vote!"></td> ><td> </td></tr> ></table> ></center> ></form> > >You need to do something to make sure that the rating that is coming in is >an integer. In the example above, I basically create a line of radio buttons >and the user just clicks on the line. > >Kevin >

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Starting Zope -error msgs
by Mike Kompar 08 Sep '99

08 Sep '99

Just finished an install of the Zope-2.0.0-src for Slackware Linux - kernel 2.2.6 No error mesages during ./configure, make, or make clean. suid to root and make install -no errors got the master login & password but when I run the start script or python z2.py I get the following errors: Traceback (innermost last): File "z2.py", line 366, in ? import ZServer File "/tmp/Zope-2.0.0-src/ZServer/__init__.py", line 123, in ? from HTTPServer import zhttp_server, zhttp_handler File "/tmp/Zope-2.0.0-src/ZServer/HTTPServer.py", line 116, in ? from HTTPResponse import make_response File "/tmp/Zope-2.0.0-src/ZServer/HTTPResponse.py", line 99, in ? from medusa import http_server, asyncore File "/tmp/Zope-2.0.0-src/ZServer/medusa/http_server.py", line 720, in ? tz_for_log = compute_timezone_for_log() File "/tmp/Zope-2.0.0-src/ZServer/medusa/http_server.py", line 703, in compute _timezone_for_log if time.daylight: AttributeError: daylight Mike Kompar Manager of Client Services IBS a division of Modern Technologies mikek(a)mtcibs.com http://www.mtcibs.com

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Developing External Methods
by victor＠idaccr.org 08 Sep '99

08 Sep '99

I've just installed Zope, and as an initial test I entered the various files from the "Job Board" example given in a "Technical Introduction to Object Publishing with Zope". However, when I try to "Add External Method", I get the error "Error Type: AttributeError Error Value: func_defaults" with no line number given. I really can't see what the error is. I haven't really tried staring at the locations of the traceback in the Zope functions, but should this really be necessary?! So this brings up the general question: when you're writing new External Methods, what development methodology do you use? Unless you're perfect (and I'm not one of these) and never make any errors, you certainly need something which will get the methods, debugged, etc. Also, I also tried, the alternative suggested in the "Zope Content Managers Guide" of putting the external methods in the Extensions subdirectory of a Product (I made a new product called "Test"), but even though I gave Test.JobBoard as the name of the module file, it couldn't be found. Victor

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Inconsistent aquisition behavior between Zope versions
by Paulo Eduardo Neves 08 Sep '99

08 Sep '99

Hi, I had to spent some time out of this list and now I'm trying to upgrade to Zope2 and to catch on with all the news. Everything seems to work fine with my upgrade, but I'm with a problem with a site pattern I use a lot. I'll first describe the site design pattern I use with an example. I have a SQL method to get a list of cities, if an state_id variable is defined I just get the cities of that state. Here is the "getCities" SQL method: SELECT * FROM city  WHERE state_id=  It doens't have any arguments. I have a subfolder "state18" that is almost empty, it just defines an int property: state_id=18 When I test the sql method everything works fine. In the base folder the query returns all cities, if I add "state18" to the query url, the query just returns the cities of state number 18. The problem happens when I use the query inside a DTML document. If I have a DTML method "showCities" that list just list the cities and is inserted inside a document "cities". I get: In Zope 1.10.3: http://mysite.com/basefolder/cities => returns all cities http://mysite.com/basefolder/state18/cities => returns cities of state 18 In Zope 2 http://mysite.com/basefolder/cities => returns all cities http://mysite.com/basefolder/state18/cities => STILL returns all cities If I change the cities document to a method everything work as expected. If anyone want to test it, I can send simple example folders for Zope 1.10 and Zope 2. Any help? -- Paulo Eduardo Neves maito:neves@email.com Rio de Janeiro - Brasil

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ZClasses Aquisition
by Ben Leslie 08 Sep '99

08 Sep '99

Hi everyone, I am currently getting my teeth into creating ZClasses, which seem to be very powerful. I have one question which I hope someone can help me with. I am creating contact pages for different division with our company. Each division has a bunch of properties (phone, fax, email etc) and also has a number of staff which are stored as sub objects. So I have: division staff1 staff2 staff3 Each of the staff also have phone, fax, email etc. What I would like to do is if a phone, fax or email has not been specified for a certain staff member then it should be inherited from the division. Hopefully that makes sense. Thanks in advance for any help. Cheers, Benno

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Re: [Zope] Zope vs. PHP
by Kevin Dangoor 08 Sep '99

08 Sep '99

-----Original Message----- From: Ben Glazer <glazer(a)scicomp.com> To: zope(a)zope.org <zope(a)zope.org> Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 6:21 PM Subject: [Zope] Zope vs. PHP Michel answered pretty much everything, but I'll toss in a couple extra cents. >1. Do any tools exist to make it easy to upload/download an entire website? >What about transferring the Zope database over FTP? (The real question here >is "How do people backup their remotely-hosted Zope websites?") I backup my website just by FTPing the "Data.fs" file. This is the entire Zope DB, in one convenient place. As Michel mentioned, there are many ways to get your data out of (or into) Zope, but backup is quite easy. >Also, if anyone has used both Zope and PHP, I'd be very interested to see a >(more or less) objective comparison of the two. Clearly, this forum favors >Zope. Are there situations in which PHP is a better choice? Has anyone yet >written a detailed comparison of the two products? I used PHP quite a bit in '96 and '97. I know it has changed quite a bit since then, but most of the changes have been object extensions to the language, new modules and performance (as far as I've seen). To me, PHP is something that can be more readily compared to Python. PHP is really a scripting language, it just happens that it is a scripting language geared toward the web and is designed to be mingled with your HTML. Zope's web object model, object database, ZClasses, ZCatalog, permissions system, etc. really make it feel like it is a layer above PHP in terms of the services it provides. It makes it easy to do many things that web folks commonly want to do, and makes it easy to extend if you want something that is not quite so common. I recently took another look at PHP (when I read about PHP 4.0 beta). I think I'm inclined to agree with Michel... once you reach a certain point of knowledge with Zope, you're not going to want to turn back. Kevin

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RV: [Zope] view_source???
by Francisco Sam Castillo 08 Sep '99

08 Sep '99

> .... > > Here was the result: > > > >  > > <pre> > >  > > </pre> > > > >  > > > >  > > > Yes you all are right I was lost because I was looking on the zope old site and, know I got it thanks so much, I have one more question it might be to simple but fur me it is not, has anyone setup the rate option of the KMnetNews script I made a form and send the result to the rate method but it replies with an error: Error Tipo: TypeError Error Valor: number coercion failed I made it like normal html form is there where my mistake is? Thanks again Sam

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RE: [Zope] Building a list programmatically under DTML
by Michel Pelletier 08 Sep '99

08 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Timothy Grant [mailto:tjg@avalongroup.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 5:19 PM > To: Kevin Dangoor; Zope Folk > Subject: Re: [Zope] Building a list programmatically under DTML > > > <ul> > > <dtml-in desc> > > <li><dtml-var sequence-item></li> > > </dtml-in> > > </ul> > > Unfortunately, neither the above, nor any other kinds of list making, > paragraph making or line breaking give me what I expect. The > about I get > is always in "list" format > > ['item 1', 'this is item 2', 'I am the third item in the list'] > > So, I *know* its a list, why won't the "in" tag work, do I have to do > some sort of name space tweaking? > > Also, I should pass along that the list is passed to the form > using the > following html snippet > > <input type="hidden" name="desc:list" value="<dtml-var desc>"> A Ha! This will pass the *string* '['item 1', 'this is item 2', 'I am the third item in the list']' as *one item in a list*. You cannot pass along python objects through HTML <input> elements, they are just too simple. All they can provide is a mapping between a name and a string value. To do so, you would need to _build_ your hidden input fields: <form action...> <dtml-in desc> <input type="hidden" name="desc:list" value="<dtml-var sequence-item>"> </dtml-in> </form> This will put an <input...> in your HTML for every element in the list 'original_list'. When the 'action' of this form gets called, ZPublisher will marshal all of the <input...>s into a list called 'desc'. And then your code will work. -Michel

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RE: [Zope] Zope vs. PHP
by Michel Pelletier 07 Sep '99

07 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Glazer [mailto:glazer@scicomp.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 6:08 PM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Zope vs. PHP > > > I have a few questions about Zope. > > 1. Do any tools exist to make it easy to upload/download an > entire website? > What about transferring the Zope database over FTP? (The > real question here > is "How do people backup their remotely-hosted Zope websites?") The Zope database can be imported/exported in it's native format or XML. There are gobs of ways to put content into Zope via any one of a number of means to detailed to go into here. The answer is 'Yes'. > 2. Is it easy to have multiple Zope databases? Yes. Why? > 3. Is there an easy way to do a global search-and-replace > over an entire > Zope-based web site? The Zope database contains much more infrastructure than either a flat file or a relational database. The concept of 'search and replace' has no easy definition in such an object system. Of course, you can 'export' the database to XML, munge it, and re-import it, but it would be far saner to understand your problem and programaticly 'search' and 'replace' what you care about, as apposed to some global specification. As an example, lets say you had two objects who both had properties 'author'. And you wanted to globably search and replace 'author' with 'creator'. Ok, no big deal. Now, lets say you also had an object *named* author. Should it be replaced too? It has no semantic relationship to the other two objects who have *properties* named 'author'. The three objects may be completely unrelated. > 4. Is there a way to write DTML macros? For example, presume > that in my > site, I always open tables like this: > > <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%"> > > Is there any way to write a dtml tag, say "dtml-table", to > abbreviate this? > I'm not very familiar with Zope yet; is there a better way to > accomplish > this task? Yes, just create a DTML method called 'dtml_table' containing: <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%"> and call it in another DTML Method or Document: <dtml-var dtml_table> > Additionally, how easy is it to code new DTML tags? I'm relatively > well-versed in Python. Very easy. As a trivial example, see the Zippy tag: http://www.zope.org:18200/Members/michel/Products/Zippy and MIMETools.MIMETag, which comes standard with Zope in lib/python/Product/MIMETools/MIMETag.py. I use these two as an example because I wrote them. Most of the 'standard' tags can be found in lib/python/DocumentTemplate/*.py > Also, if anyone has used both Zope and PHP, I'd be very > interested to see a > (more or less) objective comparison of the two. Clearly, > this forum favors > Zope. Are there situations in which PHP is a better choice? > Has anyone yet > written a detailed comparison of the two products? PHP is just code in your layout. Zope has: standard persistence system, abstractions of data into standard objects, standard security model, standard database-transparent Object Relational Integration, web managment interface, FTP, WebDAV, IMAP and XML-RPC native protocol integration and much more. I don't know what PHP has, because I've never used it. Your right, I'm biased. But how about I make a biased prediction? If your versed in Python, after using Zope to the point of 'enlightenment' you use Zope for every project thereafter and not PHP (unless someone pays you, of course ;). -Michel

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