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Re: [ZPT] ZPT advocacy
by Peter Bengtsson 28 May '01

28 May '01

Feedback on http://www.zope.org/Members/vallen2/ It was easy to read because you shine of enthusiasm and optimism. That's good, and this is the kind of text you want to send when you send propaganda to a prospective client. But it's easier for me to complain so I'll do that. It's alot of "me" and "I". That's alright, but is the article about you or Zope as a basis product for a developing Buiness plan? Your conclusion in the begining of the text summorizes: "Zope is all about a framework for rapid Web-application creation and maintenance." The work "rapid" weights heavly in that sentence. Maybe you should get back to that later in detail. It is the same conclusion I use a lot when I'm describing Zope. I say "Using Zope, you'll get more for your money because everything is so prepared for you. If you know what you want, you can save money by using Zope" "Rapid creation and maintenence" also means "less bucks"; but maybe we should leave the conclusion about what "rapid" means to people who apply it. One thing that I thing you should mention more about content management systems and so on is that when you install Zope you get ACLUsers, Lots of permissions, Basic Authentication (well tested), encompassed-management-view-per-permissions and options to fully customize and control login (LDAP, MySQL UserFolder, NT Userfolder etc) These are things that are taken for granted in Zope. And in the ASP/JSP/PHP world systems that "approach" the security whole of Zope cost thousands of pounds for companies. I've seen new media agencies build impressive content management systems for wellpaying large companies, but when I look at their content management system I think that they can be built in zope in 30 minutes by mastering the www.zope.org/Products page. Business is a lot about money. And this is one of Zope's strongest strengths, by just like you're saying being rapid. More on that please. Nothing more for moment. Well done. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Vallen" <vallen(a)gmx.net> To: <zpt(a)zope.org> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 2:03 PM Subject: [ZPT] ZPT advocacy > Hi, > > I've recently had an exchange with Peter Bengtsson about > his nice ZPT/DTML - comparison page. > > Now he alerted me to the existence of a ZPT-mailing list and > here I am. > [Notice to evan: please mention the list under > http://www.zope.org/Resources/MailingLists as that's where > I and probably others have looked]. > > I would like to draw your attention to that > kind of business plan (pamphlet?) I hacked last night. > While its premier aim is finding a way to do a business > based on Zope, it contains some amount of ZPT-advocacy > as well. > > And ZPT can use any support it can muster. So here's > the relevant part. Head over to > http://www.zope.org/Members/vallen2/ for the whole > thing. If anyone thinks he can use it for propaganda ;-) do! > > see you, > Andreas > > > ---- start of excerpt > > ... > (2) The second major problem we have is the separation of content, logic and > presentation. > > "Long before solved" one should think regarding the wealth of supposedly > "Model-View-Controller" patterns in the application server domain: ASP, PHP, > JSP and DTML. > > Not true! Most of you will know it: Above mentioned templating mechanisms > while better than Perl-cgiing at their time of birth have introduced their > own plethora of problems. In fact it were the same old ones: Logic inside > presentation. > While it is impossible to edit a cgi-script with a WYSIWYG-editor editing > these templates is not a pleasant experience either - if at all possible. > I as a Java-devotee have of course taken delight in JSP - until I used it too > much. I have not coded in the other above mentioned templating languages (not > even DTML), but I know for sure that the result is the same: > > They leave a hell of a mess. > > But good we have DC. Apart of creating our platform, one of the advantages of > having a commercial "mother" as an open-source community is that they often > better sense the shortcomings of the platform regarding its use by people not > being fluent in all the languages of choice at any given moment (e.g. DTML). > > And I assume that no designer wants to see or even learn > "dtmlmethod(_.None,_)". God - not even I want to see something like this. But > I think I have to: I'm a coder. > So what did DC do? > > Short: they created the ultimate weapon. The solution. The thing that made me > think my business idea is feasible, no: damned to success:Page Templates > > I'm not in a mood to explain them. Just go to the ZPT site. Simply know that > they are a groundbreaking mechanism to separate logic, content and > presentation in such a way that page-designers can reliably edit their > dynamic pages inside any WYSIWYG-editor without having any problems. > > Contrast this to any(!) other of the established templating mechanisms which > will make these editors terribly confused and unusable, what is quite sure > your fate if you don't happen to speak the language of the tools' company > (Microsoft: ASP!, even Macromedia may cease support for anything but CFML > from Allaire Coldfusion (whom they bought) and JSP: Think about choice Mr. > IT-manager! No one got ever fired for choosing choice! ;-) ) > > In some way the content<->logic separation is even better accomplished by > XMLC (a separation mechanism employed by the java application server > "Enhydra"), which ZPT was inspired by, but enhydra XMLC lacks other crucial > features which in my opinion second it. > > I try to advertise ZPT because I feel many seasoned developers shun this new > technology. Even DC seems to be afraid of saying DTMLers: "Stop coding DTML. > There's something new in town and it is vastly superior!" Understandable - > given the fact that zopistas like too hack and ZPT superficially (ok ... > really - but only a bit) seems to have less expressiveness. > > But that's the same the new Python Scripts are also all about: Stop enmeshing > logic and content! > The results are more but rewarding and as I said enabling my business - > because they tackle our second problem: separating the logic from the content. > ... > > --- end of excerpt > > _______________________________________________ > ZPT mailing list > ZPT(a)zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zpt

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RE: [Zope] How do I properly install PIL for Zope under Windows?
by Max Møller Rasmussen 28 May '01

28 May '01

> From: Holger Lehmann [mailto:lehmann@catworkx.de] > There ought to be a windows 32-bit precompiled distribution > around somewhere. > Try google's search with: > pil win32 binary I allready have it installed and compiled under regular Python 2.0, and I also used it under 1.5.2, but I cannot seem to figure out where to put the right stuff under Zope, as the directory structure is completely different. I have tried all possible ways that I can think but to no avail. regards Max M

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How do I properly install PIL for Zope under Windows?
by Max Møller Rasmussen 28 May '01

28 May '01

I have PIL up and running under Python 2.0 in windows. Now I want to transfer some code to a Zope product. Therefore I need to install PIL under Zope 2.3 I havn't been able to find any docs about it. Has anybody got some hints? regards max M

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ZSyncer
by Peter Bengtsson 28 May '01

28 May '01

Can you please tell me _how to use the ZSyncer_. I don't dare to experiment with it too much in case of serious data loss. What I want to do is to transmit a bunch of objects over from my localhost to my public server. I might also want to do it the other way around, but the problem is that my localhost is behind a firewall so it doesn't have an address that I can type into the public server. It might be obvious, but what am I supposed to write in the Destinations lines property. Thanks a lot, Peter

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Re: [Zope] Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
by Robert Boulanger 28 May '01

28 May '01

> Boa isn't much of a Windowing Toolkit for Zope. > Yes, it opens Zope objects. But so does emacs and Homesite ( and they both > do it right ). Wait until the end of this week, CVS will be updated then. Then you will find more Zope Support then as you can find in the most other Tools. > > BOA needs work. The most annoying thing is that I can't type > characters that > required the fingering of the [Alt Gr] button! > Learn from this americans and britons! Test your software on obscure > international keyboards. Look into preferences.py. There you find a setting for European Keyboard Support. Set it to 1 and Alt Gr works. This feature was included in Nov 2000. robert boulanger

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Cannot get to management screens! (stuck in view page)
by Etienne Labuschagne 28 May '01

28 May '01

Hi all Suddenly, and without any apparent reason, I cannot get into the management screens when I use the /manage option after a site's URL. When doing that I only get the "view" screen in the right-hand panel with the site structure left-hand panel. When clicking on another part of the site in the left-hand panel, the right hand only shows a "view" screen of that area and not the management screen. I have tried loggin in as emercency (Administrator) user to see if permissions is not the problem, but that user have got the same problem. When using /manage_workspace after the URL, then I get the tabbed workspace page (as one frame in the browser - no other frames visible). I have seen suggestions of a bug in IE, which may be true, but I have been working for more than a year like this without this problem ever occuring. I have also deleted the siteroot I was using, but that also didn't solve my problem. Any suggestions for a desperate man? Etienne

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Re: Error importing STX.zexp
by Luca Manini 28 May '01

28 May '01

Hi, just answering myself... The problems seeem to be that I was importing the file from the root folder. Importing from the Products folder works fine. But way is it so? zexp file are not always Products (are they?). The error message does not help too much. Why are some products "released" as zexp? bye, Luca. >Hi, > >I've got an error (see below) while importing > > STX_Document-1.2.zexp > ............... >The object STX_Document does not support this operation >................ > File C:\PROGRA~1\Zope\lib\python\OFS\CopySupport.py, line 444, in _verifyObjectPaste > (Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions) >Copy Error: (see above)

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Error importing STX.zexp
by Luca Manini 28 May '01

28 May '01

Hi, I've got an error (see below) while importing STX_Document-1.2.zexp taken at http://www.zope.org/Members/tseaver/STX_Document/STX_Document-1.2.zexp/view What's the problem??? I usually rename export files before importing (ex: STX.zexp), is that allowed? By the way, while not putting a friendly OpenDialog in the import (export) form :-) TIA, Luca. The object STX_Document does not support this operation Traceback (innermost last): File C:\PROGRA~1\Zope\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 223, in publish_module File C:\PROGRA~1\Zope\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 187, in publish File C:\PROGRA~1\Zope\lib\python\Zope\__init__.py, line 221, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions) File C:\PROGRA~1\Zope\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 171, in publish File C:\PROGRA~1\Zope\lib\python\ZPublisher\mapply.py, line 160, in mapply (Object: manage_importObject) File C:\PROGRA~1\Zope\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 112, in call_object (Object: manage_importObject) File C:\PROGRA~1\Zope\lib\python\OFS\ObjectManager.py, line 562, in manage_importObject (Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions) File C:\PROGRA~1\Zope\lib\python\OFS\CopySupport.py, line 444, in _verifyObjectPaste (Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions) Copy Error: (see above)

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RE: [Zope] Cannot get to management screens! (stuck in view page)
by Etienne Labuschagne 28 May '01

28 May '01

The problem ocurred on two machines simultaneously, both machines just had Win2K service pack 2 applied. That probably upgraded our IE's with a new bug, with compliments from Microsoft. Ah well, just will have to download NS4 . . . Thanks Etienne -----Original Message----- From: kosh(a)aesaeion.com [mailto:kosh@aesaeion.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 11:00 AM To: Etienne Labuschagne Cc: Zope user list (E-mail) Subject: RE: [Zope] Cannot get to management screens! (stuck in view page) It would be IE. Reinstalling zope is not the problem since zope is not the problem. Try updating to the newest version of IE. Maybe an app you installed applied a patch to IE or one of IEs files got corrupted. Designing the webpages of tomorrow http://webme-eng.com Designing the MMORPGS of tomorrow http://worldforge.org On Mon, 28 May 2001, Etienne Labuschagne wrote: > Hi all > > Ok it does seem to be a problem with Internet Exploder - I tried Netscape > and it worked fine! My question is, why now after more than a year of > usage!!?? Must I reinstall Zope or IE? > > Regards > Etienne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Etienne Labuschagne [mailto:etiennel@geospace.co.za] > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 10:42 AM > To: Zope user list (E-mail) > Subject: [Zope] Cannot get to management screens! (stuck in view page) > > > Hi all > > Suddenly, and without any apparent reason, I cannot get into the management > screens when I use the /manage option after a site's URL. When doing that I > only get the "view" screen in the right-hand panel with the site structure > left-hand panel. When clicking on another part of the site in the left-hand > panel, the right hand only shows a "view" screen of that area and not the > management screen. I have tried loggin in as emercency (Administrator) user > to see if permissions is not the problem, but that user have got the same > problem. When using /manage_workspace after the URL, then I get the tabbed > workspace page (as one frame in the browser - no other frames visible). > > I have seen suggestions of a bug in IE, which may be true, but I have been > working for more than a year like this without this problem ever occuring. > I have also deleted the siteroot I was using, but that also didn't solve my > problem. > > Any suggestions for a desperate man? > > Etienne > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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Two Languages - checking if [default_en-Method] exists
by Martin Stoetzel 28 May '01

28 May '01

Hi, I am working on a homepage with two languages, German and English (whereas German is the default language, sorry guys ;) I have a button to change the language. By clicking this 'language'-button another index_html is loaded, the menu and the content of the main-cell changes its language. The problem is that I don't have the English translation of all pages and therefore want to check if a method "default_en" exists in the folder. If not, show the "default"-method (which is German) It is not that easy because I need to check the exact (absolute) method location because a folder may not have the default_en but inherits from its Parents. This method-exist check is the problem. I have read former mails and tried the "hasattr" function but I could not make it run. Thanks for any input. Martin -- Machen Sie Ihr Hobby zu Geld bei unserem Partner 1&1! http://profiseller.de/info/index.php3?ac=OM.PS.PS003K00596T0409a -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net

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