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RV: [Long] Development in Zope (Was: Re: [Zope] data point on ease of learning Zope -- I give up.)
by Ernesto Revilla 19 Mar '01

19 Mar '01

Hi Cees, hi Stefano, I have the very same problem. I think we would enjoy an IDE like VisualStudio or Delphi for development and deploy the results under Zope. Still this is not the case. A tighter union between ActiveState and DigiCool could give such results. ActiveState has the IDE and DigiCool has the Application Server. I still haven't seen the Komodo or the Wing packeges working. Also, the documentation for developers (say the class/package model and the function-call interfaces and semantics) is scarce, but I've read that this is now in development. This should be directly accesible by an IDE or a Documentation browser with search capabilities and so on. Of course, could be Zope, but Zope is not an IDE, and I need the docs accesible from the window where I write my source code. I can identify some more features I'm would enjoy in a development framework: * A data modeller, object oriented, with adaptors to real-world storage systems. UML-modelling would nice. I know that some of these exist but I still didn't see one working. I would like to model my (persistent) classes visually, designing the inheritance relations and the properties a class has. Also I would put modification info, such as: if attribute x of class instance y changes, change also attribute z of class instance w. This data schema would be translated to a OODMBS with some updating logic or into a RDBMS with all the referential integerity rules and triggers to maintain data cosistent. * A document-framework. This is a good way to abstract all type of real-world logic. The document framework would make it possible to search and recover document, and to update one or more class instances in one transaction, and treat any multiuser access problems. * A GUI-builder, which could work in a generic way, having some types of widgets and wich could help to build the GUI graphically. I saw this is VisualAge for Java and I liked it very much. But now, there should be local calls and remote procedure call based e.g. on XML-RPC. The interfaces could translate to Java, HTML/JavaScript and other languages. It would be like a visual modeller for the Mozilla framework which separates contents (what elements will be on the screen), behaviour (what action will perform whatever event), locales and layout (where will be put each of the elements, what colour, etc.). This should be completed with guidelines for designing GUI and integrate them with the business logic (and a document framework) running on the application server. All these ideas come from the wishes to get a higher level of abstraction. We need persistent classes, we need a data-modeller and we need a way to change data schemas in a fast and flexible manner. Also do we need to separate data-model aspects from representation on the screen, so we can make good projects dividing software departments into backend and frontend engineers (and possible these into programmers and visual designers). But frontend and backend are very related and so backend engineers should have an easy way to write documentation for the classes and their methods, and frontend engineer should have an easy way to access the necessary documentation. The power of the GUI will directly affect the successfullness of the software. It's the same as the use of natural language: If it has a lot of words which effectively describe the concepts I need (in an easy way) and I use them in the right manner, communication with other people will be very effective and efficient, the degree of communication is one of the most important factors of business success. I have a ERP solution (made with MS-Access) for small companies and want to migrate to another platform, but I don't know how to start. I would like to use standard browser technologies, but sometimes it seems not to be sufficient. Also I would like to have a O(bject)Q(uery)L(anguage) Object Store to access efficiently thousand of objects, but I still haven't found / experienced a good solution. The same thing with the data-modeller and document-framework. So I spend really a lot of time browsing through the Web. What should we do? Erny > Hello Cees > > the problem you raised is exactly the same problem I am facing. Allow me to > list my problems: > > - I am an experienced Java programmer, as well as many other -win- languages > - I want to build a big site with lots of logic > - I want to have a comfortable tool > - I do not want to build tons of classes from scratch. > > I have been evaluating a lot of other solutions, including ColdFusion, > Enhydra as app servers, PHP, ASP, and other as languages. After a lot of > headaches, I came out with the idea that unfortunately there are no "all in > one out of the box" solutions. From product A you get abc tools/solutions, > from B you get def and so on. So at the end I decided to stick with Zope, > for many reasons including: > > - Perl, maybe IMHO not the best, but terribly efficient and widespread. > - Python, even if I do not like it at all, but after all the important is > that it does it work :)) > - XML-RPC so Java for me > - you can hide Zope behind Apache, so you can also use Tomcat, PHP and > whatever. > > In the end, a mig mix. But please tell me, where in world can you find an > all in one? I did not, so at least, I will take the advantage of the great > manageabilty of Zope, those tons of "speed-of-light" tools like DTML-IN and > ZSQL methods, and do the rest in the tool I like most for that specific > work. > > I do not like it, however, because it lacks consistency, but at least I will > not end up reinventing the weel that somebody has already invented, and > debugged veeeery well, seen the tons of peple using Zope. > > Regards > Stefano >

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ZOPE installation problems
by K H Subrahmanyan 19 Mar '01

19 Mar '01

Hi, I tried to install zope on a Linux (slackware) platform. but it is not installing. I have successfully installed zope in Redhat. what may be the problem. subrahmanyan.

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Wish List
by Ernesto Revilla 19 Mar '01

19 Mar '01

Hi all, some wishes: 1. integrate Zope Beans or something like this into the core. They are cool. 2. Java-applet to design UML diagrams (doesn't need to be complete, but should model class charts, with the possibility to transform the diagrams into Zope Beans. 3. make ZODB understand OQL. (Bombastic for translating relational systems into OO systems, great for prototyping). Cheers, Erny

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Design Patterns
by Ben Ocean 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

Hi; I'm new to Zope and Design Patterns, but I notice some wonderful similarities between the two. Can someone please help me to understand which design patterns Zope has laid into its architecture and where? The reason for my question is specifically because of the *Factory* method. Is this a straight *Factory Method* as outlined in the GoF book, or is it an *Abstract Factory*? Are Abstract Factories built into Zope's architecture? How about other creational methods, such as Prototype and Builder? How about Behavioral Methods and Structural Methods? TIA, BenO

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Re: [Zope] Acquisition
by Dieter Maurer 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

Axel Missbach writes: > ... unexpected acquisition behaviour ... > Where is my failure? > Is there another (better) way to do it? Jim Fulton gave a talk about Acquisition algebra at a conference. He explains the primary acquisition behaviour by the key sentence: "Containment before Context". Either look at this talk on zope.org or read the acquisition section in URL:http://www.dieter.handshake.de/pyprojects/zope/book/chap3.html Dieter

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Re: [Zope] Upgrading 2.0 to 2.3
by Dieter Maurer 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

Albert Kinderman writes: > I have a site running on 2.0.1. I would like to upgrade to 2.3.x. The big step is to 2.2 because with this step Zope security model changed. There is a document from Brian explaining what need to be change (-> Zope Security on zope.org) The step from 2.2 to 2.3 will not make big problem. You plan to go directly to 2.3. Nevertheless, you need to take care of the changes introduced with Zope 2.2. Dieter

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Re: [Zope] IE caching issues
by Dieter Maurer 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

kosh writes: > ... apparent caching problem with IE ... We send explicit "Expires" headers (with expiration time in the past) and do not have problems. Dieter

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Re: [Zope] <dtml-tree> and ZCatalog
by Dieter Maurer 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

Joel Burton writes: > Unfortunately, I don't find that your section on dtml-tree, nor the I agree, it is difficult to find. I will need to tweak the style sheet for the final version or do not use section levels below 3: You find it via this path: chapter 3 DTML commands tree: interactive hierarchical display > earlier-referenced HowTo throws much light (for me, at least) on creating > a dtml-tree as I am looking for on an object that I could get from a > ZCatalog result. I do see discussions on how to entirely re-structure my > catalog to support parent_ids and such to form a tree in a database or via > attributes captured in ZSQL methods, but nothing about what I seem to be > looking for. Sorry, I do not read most messages very carefully, just thim them. Earlier questions (-> searchablge mailing list archives, Google) had the data in an external database and wanted to use the tree command to present a hierarchical view on these data. When I skimmed your message, I had the impression, that your problem was the same as the others, I had seen and responded with the Z SQL advice. But the Z Catalog is very similar to a Z SQL method (both implement the "Searchable" interface). The "tree" command requires a "branches" method or a "branches_expr" that return a list of children if applied/evaluated in a parents content. Thus, you must define such a (probably) "branches_expr". Your "branches_expr" will probably ask the Z Catalog for the children of the current node, something like: branches_expr="MyCatalog(parentId=getId())" This assumes, that each child has an attribute (or parameter less method) that returns the id of its parent. It assumes further, that this attribute is indexed. Dieter

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freebsd error
by Chris Humphries 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

i have python 1.5.2 (threads), freebsd, and zope installed (tryeed differenmt versions, so i know this is not an version issue). here is the error, i think something is just configured wrong or it cant find something: # ./start Traceback (innermost last): File "/usr/local/www/Zope-2.0.0b5/z2.py", line 375, in ? exec "import "+MODULE in {} File "<string>", line 1, in ? File "/usr/local/www/Zope-2.0.0b5/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py", line 94, in ? import ZODB, ZODB.ZApplication, imp File "/usr/local/www/Zope-2.0.0b5/lib/python/ZODB/__init__.py", line 85, in ? import sys, ExtensionClass, TimeStamp, cPersistence, Persistence ImportError: /usr/local/www/Zope-2.0.0b5/lib/python/ExtensionClass.so: Undefined symbol "PyMethod_Type" thanks, Chris

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RE: [Zope] ANNOUNCE: ZopeMake 1.0
by Farrell, Troy 18 Mar '01

18 Mar '01

Yes. ZopeMake uses ZClient to allow commandline scripting of imports and exports, but cannot import .zexp files that are not on the file system. I've been thinking about 2 of Zope's "problems" (security features) lately and I've almost hit some solutions. <Ask DC to turn a deaf ear> I wonder (I haven't looked) how difficult it would be to patch zope so it can import .zexp files that are already in ZODB, so that I can manage_addFile a .zexp file and then manage_importObjectFromZODB. I was thinking about using LocalFS for this, but I don't think LFS is deployed far and wide enough for this. Then again, if we get a solution for this, more people might use LocalFS. I might try to write the code if it sounds doable. It might be nice. Download ZopeMake 1.2 here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/paflow/ Troy -----Original Message----- From: Chris Withers [mailto:chrisw@nipltd.com] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 6:16 AM To: p.bizzarri(a)icube.it; zope(a)zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] ANNOUNCE: ZopeMake 1.0 > I am happy to announce ZopeMake 1.0, a couple of utilities to perform the > upload/download of .zexp files without passing through the import/export > interface. Instead, it uses the ZClient to perform directly the interaction > with Zope. Hmmm, does this suffer from the same security implications that are the reason behind DC not implementing TTW import of .zexp's? cheers, Chris _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

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