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RE: [Zope] Re: Java vs Zope
by sean.upton＠uniontrib.com 07 Jan '06

07 Jan '06

> Actually, that's not true. Languages such as Perl and Python > were designed to write scripts, not to code entire > applications. Prove it. Prove what the creators and initial shapers of the language intended! There is an argumentative fallacy called "hasty generalization" - surely you know what I'm talking about. This is a baseless claim without warrant or data, and is a generalization tantamount to saying something silly like "Lisp was only created to give Emacs users a way to change their colors." > Python is an exception because it can be > successfully used to code large applications, unlike some > other scripting languages. Have you considered that you are trying to create a rule and find a way for the exception not to prove it false. Has it occurred that you are creating a false dichotomy? You sound as silly as clerics in medieval Europe in denial about retrograde motion of the planets in the night sky - after all, we all know that the Earth is the center of the universe. That analogy is apt because it is the same pattern of logic - try to scapegoat the obvious hole in your theory as an irrelevant outlier, label it, and hope that an inquisition of name-calling destroys it. > So it's best to call Python a > "scripting programming language" because it has this dual > nature. So what really matters is what we call it? I must make a note to remember how much more important this is than how we use it. > All said and done, I prefer to use Java over Python > for large applications Good for you; there are others that share your tastes, but that's all it is: preference. A good coder could create an equally powerful suitably large application in either language in the same amount of time. The only difference is that the Python coder's wrists hurt 75% less from doing 25% of the typing, and the Python coder's peers' eyes hurt 75% less as they can read code quicker. > simply because it's cleaner and has > mechanisms in place that support reusability of components > and extensibility. Huh? You can do pretty much the same designs, patterns, etc in Python. Why does language make a difference here in re-usability. Perhaps you are arguing for single-inheritance as a constraint (which you can self-impose in design in Python). > Also, OO concepts such as abstraction and > inheritance are well defined in Java. And they aren't in python. I think this is just another baseless statement. > Also, both compiled and interpreted languages have their > advantages and disadvantages. The real Java/Python debate is about dynamic strong typing versus static strong typing. Such debates have already been had, ad nauseum, elsewhere. This "interpreted" or "scripting versus programming" angle on a language flamewar is neither new, nor insightful. Sean +----------------------------------------------------------+ Sean Upton SignOnSanDiego.com Site Technology Supervisor The San Diego Union-Tribune 619.718.5241 sean.upton(a)signonsandiego.com 350 Camino De La Reina San Diego, CA 92108 Plone Powered! plone.org ++ python.org ++ zope.org +----------------------------------------------------------+

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[ANN] Zope 2.9.0 released
by Andreas Jung 07 Jan '06

07 Jan '06

Hi all, on behalf of Zope Corporation and the Zope community I am pleased to announce the release of Zope 2.9.0. You can download it from http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.9.0/ Some new features of Zope 2.9: - ZODB 3.6 - Five 1.2 - integration for Zope 3 events for object creation and deletion - Zope 3 i18n integration for page templates For more information on what is new in this release, see the CHANGES.txt files for the release: http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.9.0/CHANGES.txt Please bring all the bugs you have found to the Zope bugtracker: "http://collector.zope.org/Zope":http://collector.zope.org/Zope For more information on the available Zope releases, guidance for selecting the right distribution and installation instructions, please see: http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition/InstallingZope.stx Support Python versions: Zope 2.9 requires Python 2.4.2 (Python 2.4.1 is still acceptable). Older Python versions are no longer supported. Thanks to all being involved in this release. -- Andreas Jung (andreas at zopyx dot com)

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Cookie Crumbler
by Infor Gates 07 Jan '06

07 Jan '06

Dear zopist I have a trying time using Cookie Crumbler 1.2 with Zope2.8.4 (windows version). I could NOT figure out how to log out a user. I have simplified to the orginal logged_out form to this: <dtml-call "RESPONSE.expireCookie('__ac_name')"> <a href="/manage_zmi_logout">logout</a> However, neither this nor the original logged_out dtml seems to work. Is it because I am using frames in my dtml that causes it or I am getting the concept of how Cookie Crumbler works? Thank you. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

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weird occurrance with Zope MailTemplates
by Erik Myllymaki 07 Jan '06

07 Jan '06

I am running into a strange problem with Zope MailTemplates; it probably reflects my rather shallow understanding of Zope in general. I am using a Python Script as my index_html. It has a simple form and calls itself on submit. And I use another Python Script that simply calls my MailTemplate object: --index_html-- request = container.REQUEST RESPONSE = request.RESPONSE if not request.has_key('next_state'): return container['index.zpt'](context, request) if request['next_state']=="Client Lookup": error='' message='' try: container.send_template() message = "Mail Sent!" except: error = "Error sending Mail!" return container['index.zpt'](context, request, error=error, message=message) --/index_html-- --send_template-- msg = container.test_mt.as_message( mfrom='admin(a)mydomain.com'.encode('utf-8'), mto='ee(a)mydomain.com'.encode('utf-8'), subject='This is the Subject of a MailTemplate'.encode('utf-8'), message='This is the body'.encode('utf-8'), encoding='utf-8' ) msg.send() return 'Mail Sent' --/send_template-- My mailtemplate is the same on that is used in the examples(with a small typo corrected (s/option/options): --test_mt-- <tal:body xmlns:tal="http://xml.zope.org/namespaces/tal" xmlns:metal="http://xml.zope.org/namespaces/metal" >Dear <tal:x replace="options/mto"/>, <tal:x replace="user/getId"/> would like to thank you for your interest in: <a href="" tal:define="url root/absolute_url" tal:attributes="href url" tal:content="url"/> <tal:x replace="options/message"/> cheers, The Web Team </tal:body> --/test_mt-- the send_template script works when tested from the ZMI. When the MailTemplate was first created, it defaulted to text/plain. The weird thing is that this effected my main zpt in addition to the email. So after submitting the form, the zpt came back rendered as code instead of html, until I clued into what was happening and changed the MailTmeplate to text/html. Is there a really good reason for this behaviour that I am missing?

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create description when I mouse over a formulator form field???
by Rhonda Shirah 07 Jan '06

07 Jan '06

I would like to add a description to each of my fields in my formulator form. I would like the description to show when I mouse over the empty field on the form. Can anyone tell me how to do this? Thanks, Rhonda

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migrating a zodb
by David Bear 06 Jan '06

06 Jan '06

I installed zope 2.7.4 from FreeBSD packages. Trouble is that I already had python 2.4 installed. It appears the package just used that version of python since zope says it is using python 2.4. I've run in to a few wierd things and would like to get a zope instance a little more reliable. I was thinking of just making a copy of my zodb file, removing the zope pkgs, then do a source install with python 2.3. Is the zodb file plug and play transferrable? Can I just copy the zodb into the a new zope instance and go? -- David Bear What's the difference between private knowledge and public knowledge?

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Re: [Zope] Re: Java vs Zope
by Floyd May 06 Jan '06

06 Jan '06

At the risk of contributing to the usual "my programming language is better than yours" holy war, I'll throw in $0.02(US): There are a few things that make Zope a noteworthy alternative to a HTML + Java web server: 1. Python is much less rigid in terms of types than Java, and it has nifty stuff like getAttr(). I've never seen an easy-to-use, built-in API in any other web-oriented programming language that lets me locate and use object fields and methods by entering a string value for the identifier. This often means that knowing the type of an object becomes less important - it just needs to contain the methods and attributes you need to use. If the object doesn't have what you need, Python gives you plenty of facilities to discover which methods/fields are missing and recover gracefully. Computer science purists often perch themselves on soapboxes and preach the value of rigid type-safety; Python is a shining example of when type-safety isn't always desirable. 2. Python has simple syntax for tuples, lists, and dictionaries. 3. Zope is anal-retentive about valid XHTML and XML - a wonderful feature as the web moves into the future. Zope just won't let things fly if they don't validate against the parser. 4. ZPT - a scripting language that integrates itself within the DOM. ZPT dissipates many of the easy-to-miss mistakes regarding programming-language constructs like conditional blocks and iteration, as well as exposes the contents of those iterated or condition-protected blocks to XML or XHTML validation. 5. Acquisition - a wonderful feature that helps to unify a large application by making objects easily reachable without having to memorize and use long paths. 6. Permissions - Zope has a fine-grained permissions model built in. This is a life-saver for web applications that require authentication, especially if they accommodate different classes of users. 7. Object-oriented database storage - this puts all the power of acquisition, containment, and security into your storage backend with minimal marshalling from the database storage into the web page. IMHO, Java as a web language is still much better suited for stuff like applets. However, you could conceivably take a language like Java and build a Zope-like server around it, and probably reap some benefits from Java that you would have difficulty acquiring from Python. fm On 1/6/06, Andreas Jung <lists(a)andreas-jung.com> wrote: > > > > --On 6. Januar 2006 10:06:55 -0500 Asad Habib <ahabib(a)engin.umich.edu> > wrote: > > > Well, the class is simply a construct that Java uses to define an > object. > > Also, the concept of object is well defined in Java which makes it > easier > > for the programmer to know what can and cannot be done. In Python, it is > > not as explicit. Java is a programming language and hence cannot be > > compared directly to a scripting language such as Python or PHP. These 2 > > types are designed for different purposes. > > > > > > Python is not a programming language??? huh......the difference is that > Java is compiled and Python is interpreted. I agree that PHP is not a > programming language but just a weird mixture of HTML and _something_ > programming-language-like :-) > > -aj > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > >

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Re: [Zope] Re: Java vs Zope
by Martijn Pieters 06 Jan '06

06 Jan '06

On 1/6/06, Andreas Jung <lists(a)andreas-jung.com> wrote: > Hairsplitter :-) That's *Mr* __Pedant__ to you, capiche? :P -- Martijn Pieters

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Re: [Zope] Re: Java vs Zope
by Martijn Pieters 06 Jan '06

06 Jan '06

On 1/6/06, Andreas Jung <lists(a)andreas-jung.com> wrote: > Python is not a programming language??? huh......the difference is that > Java is compiled and Python is interpreted *Bzzzzt* Wrong again. :) Both Java and Python compile to bytecode, which a virtual machine then interprets. In Java this step is explicit, Python does the compilation on the fly on first import. The distinction between 'scripting' and 'programming' language is arbitrary and a marketing, what-can-you-use-the-language-for label. Java is hardly suited for scripting tasks, while Python scales from scripting all the way up to "enterprise applications" (another marketing label). I prefer the term 'Agile language'. This is going to deteriorate into a language flamewar soon, so let's look at a good Monty Python film instead. I recommend "Life of Brian". -- Martijn Pieters

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Re: [Zope] dynamically creating zip file, returning to user
by Tino Wildenhain 06 Jan '06

06 Jan '06

John Toews schrieb: > Thanks Tino, I'll definately give that a try too. The quick fix seemed > to be opening the file for read in binary mode... that should have been > obvious. Posting another dumb question to the list now. ;) no, dot use a regular file! Use the tempfile module! And dont reopen but seek to the start - f.seek(0) You just open it for "rw".

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