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RE: [Zope] Re: [ZDP] Wysiwyg and the merits of a webinterface - s ome considerations
by Michel Pelletier 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Everitt [mailto:paul@digicool.com] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 9:08 AM > To: Rik Hoekstra > Cc: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Re: [ZDP] Wysiwyg and the merits of a webinterface - > some considerations > > > [I removed the ZDP from the email, as most ZDP people are on the zope > list.] > > Rik Hoekstra wrote: > > Once in a while the subject of wysiwyg comes up on the > list, as it did in > > the last few days. TO summarize the discussion as I understand it: > > The main problem is that people want a wysiwyg front end > for their Zope > > Perhaps there's a farther step backwards. The following > people want the > following things: And now for a completely different perspective... > 1) Some need to put the simplest possible tool in their casual users' > hands, such as Netscape Composer. I think the 'simplest possible tool' is a textarea. Composer falls a bit short of simple, it's quite far along in the stupid catagory however. > 2) Content managers need a very productive environment for managing > content, including lite DTML scripting. I agree about managing content, but what has that to do with DTML scripting? WebDAV and FTP can 'manage' content, when you start writing DTML to *programatically* manage your content, you're doing something different. > 3) Developers need a productive environment for manipulating > the object > model, working with relational databases, debugging problems, etc. I agree. > I posit that wysiwyg is definately the road for the first > audience. The > second audience is firmly split between those that want wysiwyg > (Dreamweaver) and those that want to see the tags. The third audience > almost uniformly shuns wysiwyg. I think the third doesn't shun it, but embraces it knowing that their choice of tool comes at a cost. Emacs may have a gazzilion cryptic keybindings, and it may not be your-grandmothers-editor, but what *I* see in emacs is definatly what I get. It just ain't pretty. > Even worse, the second and third audience only cares about > one tool: the > one that they have already learned. Yes. I've never used and allways avoided the higher end 'design' tools, for probably the same reason that those tools users avoid emacs. > > The only issue at the moment is that the current management > interface (while > > it is a pleasure to work with for developers) is not at all > useful for > > non-developers. And should be improved. This is an area *ripe* for community involvment and contribution, and it suprises me that no one has taken a stab at this, considering the state of the managment interface. > > Instead I would plea for the development of a toolkit for > end user web-based > > editing environments, as I believe many of us are > developing them at the > > moment. Is anyone interested? Ideas? Comments? There is an excellent remote managment toolkit written in python allready, ZPublisher.Client. Merging this with a python tool would be easy, but other tools? Probably not possible unless they're open sourced, and at that point it's not trivial. -Michel

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RE: [ZDP] Wysiwyg = bad...
by Rik Hoekstra 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

From: "Jim Salmons" <salmons(a)sohodojo.com> To: <zdp(a)zope.org> Subject: RE: [ZDP] Wysiwyg = bad... Date sent: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:03:19 -0400 > Rik, > > WYSIWYG web editors are for folks who think that presentation is more > important than content. By separating content from presentation, ZOPE helps > to get away from the naive notion that WEB PAGES are analogous to DESKTOP > PUBLISHING PAGES. They are not. > > An author DICTATES the presentation of a desktop publishing page. A web > page author SUGGESTS the page and lets the browser render it. Minimal, > flexible code is the best way to let browsers do their job. And, most > importantly, just like in software, simple coding breaks less so your time > is spent on content, not worthless tweaking of fragile presentation. > > A decent ZOPE site should not need WYSIWYG editing. With custom input forms > to contribute content and context-aware presentation template views, there > is no need for WYSIWYG editing. At most, folks might want to place minimal > formatting tags (bold, italic, anchor tags) into contributed text content. > > If someone is doing a site that requires extensive WYSIWYG pages, they > don't need ZOPE and they probably shouldn't use ZOPE. This is fine by me, > because sites that think WYSIWYG presentation is more important than content > generally suck anyway. > > ZOPE is best applied by those who realize that content is king, not > presentation. > > Off the 'back to basics' soapbox, Ok, I agree content is much more important than presentation and that even presentation should be taken care of by professionals and should be fit onto the content. But ... Ever tried to convince the people who make decisions in an organization of this point, in competition with flashy looking products with big names behind them (unmaintainable, but whose problem is that anyway :-[)? When they have never ever seen a browser, let alone use one? Back to basics will leave you alone in a situation where many people have to use the web even if they are nothing more than users (such as a university). greetings Rik

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httpdapy support info?
by Jason Jones 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

Looking around the python.org site I found the following info about httpdapy: >WHAT'S NEW SINCE THE 0.x VERSIONS > >1. ZPublisher (formerly Bobo) support. The httpdapi_publisher module >allows the use of ZPublisher (http://www.digicool.com/site/Bobo/) with >httpdapi. See the module comments to find out how. Note that Zope >(which is a development environment which includes ZPublisher) does >not work reliably with Httpdapy yet. Zope does not have a good locking >mechanism for its persistent object storage which creates a problem >with Apache since apache runs as several separate processes any one of >which can try to modify to the storage. I expect this will be resolved >in the near future by producers of Zope. This was a comment from 1998 it looks like. Does anyone have any knowledge of running Zope under httpdapy (which embeds python in apache)? I'd love to do this if it's possible. Has anyone at Digital Creations ever tried this? It seems like the perfomance of this combo would be much greater than apache + pcgi. Thanks for any info, Jason

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RE: [Zope] <dtml-var sequence-index format ??
by Michel Pelletier 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Geir B Hansen [mailto:geirh@funcom.com] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 7:40 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] <dtml-var sequence-index format ?? > > > inside a <dtml-in> tag , i have > <dtml-var sequence-index>, showing the number of the item in the > sequence. > > The first item starts with the value 0, whereas i'd like it to start > with the value 1. > can i in any way specify this with the "fmt=whatever" > property, or do i > have to make an expression to add 1 to all the > sequence-index-numbers ? You're looking for <dtml-var sequence-number>. But the answer to your question is really 'This is documented in the DTML Guide'. ;) -Michel

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Re: [Zope] contributed zclass
by Mike Pelletier 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, kedai wrote: > so, what say you guys? > > p/s - or is it there somewhere in the members area? I think sharing your hand-built ZClasses is a great idea. While there is no facility _specifically_ for ZClasses on Zope.org, 'Software Product' objects work just fine with any kind of software, including ZClasses. In fact, ZClass-based Products are smart enough to package themselves up into a single file for distribution. See the 'Distribution' management view of your Product. Once you have your Product packaged into a file, create a Software Product object in your Membership folder, and then create a Product Release object within that for each version you wish to distribute. Don't forget to catalog it so everyone can find it! Mike. -- Mike Pelletier email: mike(a)digicool.com Mild mannered software developer icq: 7127228 by day, super villain by night. phone: 519-884-2434

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RE: [Zope] A question about logging and Zope
by Michel Pelletier 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Oliver Andrich [mailto:olli@rhein-zeitung.de] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 8:06 AM > To: Zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] A question about logging and Zope > > > Hi, > > I am nearly finished with my first inhouse Zope application - > a frontend to > the userdatabase that we use to manage our customers. > Everything went really > fine, but I like to log all actions that user do to a SQL > database, cause I > like to make the logfile entrys for each Userobject (in my > database) viewable. > > can I implement a new logging facility based on the zLOG.py > file or how can I > implement a logging facility myself? Any hints are highly > appreciated and if I > am to dumb to find the info, then please help me anyway. ;-)))) I would suggest implimenting your own zLOG module. If you look in lib/python/Zope/ZLogger, you'll see there are a few other logger types to use as a model (for example, FileLogger.py is just a stub, intellgent file logging is not done yet, but by looking at the code you get the idea). -Michel

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folderId
by Markus Jais 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

hello, I have the following problem: I want to map a path from the filesystem to zope. For example: If I have the following path in the filesystem: "/home/wizards/spells/firespell" then I want zope, to create the folder hierarchy "/home/wizards/spell" and "firespell" should be a DTML-Document. I tried to do this with a external python-method. My thougt was, to create the folder "home", the change "self" to the new folder-Id and then, inside the new folder, create the folder "wizard" an so on. Here is the while loop, which should do the task: ("parts_of_path" is a list, with the elemtents (home, wizards, spell, firespell) according to the above example) while len(parts_of_path) > 1: if path_parts[0] in self.objectIds(['Folder']): self = path_parts[0] else: self = self.manage_addFolder(path_parts[0]) #set self to the new folder path_parts = path_parts[1:] The problem is, that, when the path is only "spell/firespell", then a folder "spell" is created, but when the path is longer, like above, then I get the following error-message: Error Type: AttributeError Error Value: 'None' object has no attribute 'objectIds' I think the problem is the "manage_addFolder" - function. It returns "None", instead of the folder-Id, which I need. Has anybody ever hat a similar problem?? I would be very happy, if anybody knows a solution to this. Thank you! Markus

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RE: [Zope] How to rotate the Z2.log log file
by Michel Pelletier 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: smoerk(a)gmx.de [mailto:smoerk@gmx.de] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 6:29 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] How to rotate the Z2.log log file > > > How could I rotate the Z2.log log file? Manually. The software does not yet support log rotation. of course you could impliment this functionality and send us a patch. ;) -Michel > > Oliver > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (To receive general Zope announcements, see: > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > For developer-specific issues, zope-dev(a)zope.org - > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] dtml-in and batches
by Michel Pelletier 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Duncan Booth [mailto:duncan@rcp.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 7:31 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] dtml-in and batches > > > I may be missing something obvious here, but if I use the in tag to > iterate over a list in several batches, how can I easily work > out what > *all* the batches are. Get the _.len(ObjectValues(...)) and divide by your batch size. -Michel

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DateTime adding not working
by Jason Spisak 17 Sep '99

17 Sep '99

I want a date that is 14 days after today, and I tried  and I get a bad operand error. The source says that you can "a positive or negative number and a date-time object may be added to obtain a new date-time object that is the given number of days later..." Anyone know how to accomplish this? -- Jason Spisak webmaster(a)hiretechs.com

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