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RE: [Zope] How stable is the 2.0 alpha release?
by Michel Pelletier 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Staubo [mailto:alex@mop.no] > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:00 AM > To: Zope Mailing List (E-mail) > Subject: RE: [Zope] How stable is the 2.0 alpha release? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Michel Pelletier [mailto:michel@digicool.com] > >Sent: 16. juni 1999 16:12 > >To: 'Alexander Staubo'; Zope Mailing List (E-mail) > >Subject: RE: [Zope] How stable is the 2.0 alpha release? > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Alexander Staubo [mailto:alex@mop.no] > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 9:13 PM > >> To: Zope Mailing List (E-mail) > >> Subject: [Zope] How stable is the 2.0 alpha release? > >> > >> > > > >*Seems* stable to me. > > > >It may be very stable. You may setup a vast production site with it. > >You may find a very excellent bug that may trash all your work. > > > >If it makes you feel any better, we'll fix the bug if it's there. ;) > > Great, what about all the things mentioned in the 2.0.0a1 > release notes? > Release notes mention that alpha 2 "will be released in the > week of May > 26," which obviously did not happen. Are you behind schedule? > This is my personal opinion, as I don't do any 'scheduling', but I think that scheduling software releases in general is a Microsoftian mistake; it's done and ready when it's done and ready. I may be getting myself in trouble here, as the official company policy may differ. I do know that we have been fulfilling several customer requirements lately that were somewhat unexpected, and, of course, we can't turn down a good money making job on the excuse that it will take time away from our free product. We spend most of our time working on Zope, but we have to spread the time around for the people who want to give us money too. We are also working on alot of non Zope core products, like Catalog, Portal Tool Kit, and Tracker. All in good time. Zope is cool, and it will get much, *much* cooler. > The alpha 1 todo list is relatively serious, eg., "Most database > adapters are likely to be problematic [...] when running Zope 2 with > multiple threads" -- eek! Which ones are subject this to this problem? > Probably all of them except for the ones we write (which will be made thread safe). The problem is that most of the python libaries (which we didn't write) that the DAs (most of which we didn't write either) are written against (and in some situations the DAs themselves) are not threadsafe. This is a problem that is *way* beyond our control, but we'll probably try and fix it anyways cuz we're nice guys. > I could not find documentation on compatibility issues with ZODB2, > either (probably covered on this list at some point; would you care to > repeat?), ie. can I just copy by data.bbb into the alpha version? Yes, 2.0 alpha will work fine with an existing Database *if* you run it in ZODB2 mode (no concurrency). If you run it in ZODB3 mode (the default) your Data.bbb file will not even be used, rather, a different file called Data.fs (fs = File Storage, remember, ZODB3 can use multiple backend stores) will be used. Data.fs and Data.bbb are two different formats, and are incompatable. Real Soon Now we will have a conversion script to upgrade from Data.bbb format to Data.fs format, but I for one, will promise no date. > > Do you recommend updating the sources from the public CVS after > installing alpha 1? I recommend for the non developer interested in kicking the alpha tires to follow the release schedule, ie alpha 1, alpha 2, alpha n, beta 1, beta, n...final. If you are a developer type, and you like to get bleeding edge bug fixes, then I recommend you update against the CVS daily, and subscribe to the zope-checkins mailing list, which gives you a blow by blow description of CVS checkins done. http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-checkins -Michel -Michel > > >-Michel > > > >> -- > >> Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ > >> "`This must be Thursday,' said Arthur to himself, sinking low over > >> his beer, `I never could get the hang of Thursdays.'" > >> --Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > >> http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > >> > >> (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > >> zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] CVS - broken
by Michel Pelletier 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Harris [mailto:phil@philh.org] > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:26 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] CVS - broken > > > Hi all, > > I just tried to do a CVS chekout and had an error message: > > cvs [checkout aborted]: recv() from server zope.org: Broken pipe > > Just thought I'd let you know, ;) > Thanks, we'll look into it. -Michel > Phil > > phil(a)philh.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] ZODB3 question
by Michel Pelletier 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jimmie Houchin [mailto:jhouchin@texoma.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:35 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] ZODB3 question > > > From thread: RE: [Zope] Large Portal requirements (was: > Other web servers?) > At 03:15 PM 6/14/99 -0400, Michel wrote: > >In the future, we will be have the client server model of > ZODB3 (which > >will be a commercial product) that lets you have multiple > Zope frontend > >processes (possibly on different machines) accessing > multiple database > >backend processes (possibly on different machines). Also, ZServer is > >currently multi-threaded, but there is no theoretical limitation to > >making it multi-process, in which each Zope instance will > have it's own > >Python and thus it's own global Python lock, thus giving the OS the > >ability to schedule multiple processes among multiple processors, a > >little heavier than threads on multi-processor, but *vastly* > easier to > >impliment and far more stable. > > And then... > > From thread: RE: [Zope] How stable is the 2.0 alpha release? > At 11:12 AM 6/16/99 -0400, Michel wrote: > >Yes, 2.0 alpha will work fine with an existing Database *if* > you run it > >in ZODB2 mode (no concurrency). If you run it in ZODB3 mode (the > >default) your Data.bbb file will not even be used, rather, a > different > >file called Data.fs (fs = File Storage, remember, ZODB3 can > use multiple > >backend stores) will be used. Data.fs and Data.bbb are two different > >formats, and are incompatable. Real Soon Now we will have a > conversion > >script to upgrade from Data.bbb format to Data.fs format, > but I for one, > >will promise no date. > > > To clarify my understanding. > > Will their be a non client-server version of ZODB3 which > offers concurrency > that will be a part of the non-commercial, open source part of Zope? > Yep. Just the client server part will be commercial. -Michel > Jimmie Houchin > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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CVS - broken
by Phil Harris 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

Hi all, I just tried to do a CVS chekout and had an error message: cvs [checkout aborted]: recv() from server zope.org: Broken pipe Just thought I'd let you know, ;) Phil phil(a)philh.org

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RE: [Zope] Zope on LinuxPPC--works fine
by Jeffrey Shell 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

> From: Deirdre Saoirse [mailto:deirdre@linuxcare.com] [Copious amounts of Snipping] > Yeah, though I'd LOVE to see python bindings for the whole GUI > development environment. Objective Everything from Tiptop software (www.tiptop.com) binds to the whole OpenStep framework rather well (and apparently, Carbon). The only bad thing about it is that it's still at Python 1.4. Some of the older build notes in the Python distribution mention integration with Openstep (or at least, Objective C), but I haven't chased this too much. A Zope-EOF bridge would rock. Come to think of it, a walk on Rockawalkin bridge (actual place in Maryland) would too. :)

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RE: [Zope] How stable is the 2.0 alpha release?
by Alexander Staubo 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

>-----Original Message----- >From: Michel Pelletier [mailto:michel@digicool.com] >Sent: 16. juni 1999 16:12 >To: 'Alexander Staubo'; Zope Mailing List (E-mail) >Subject: RE: [Zope] How stable is the 2.0 alpha release? > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alexander Staubo [mailto:alex@mop.no] >> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 9:13 PM >> To: Zope Mailing List (E-mail) >> Subject: [Zope] How stable is the 2.0 alpha release? >> >> >> I realize this is a completely silly and impossible question, >> but for a >> new Linux-based production server to run Zope, we feel a bit squeezed >> between using 1.10 (which does not have Z Classes), 1.11.0pr1 >> (which has >> proven to be quite stable but does not support concurrency), >> and 2.0.0a1 >> or the latest CVS version (which is an alpha, and which I have not >> attempted to run for stability testing). >> >> We'd be able to live with an unstable server for a couple (literally >> speaking, I think) of weeks, but beyond that time, we would like >> something of production, or at least beta, quality. Until this is >> cleared up we can cope with 1.110pr1, I guess. >> > >*Seems* stable to me. > >It may be very stable. You may setup a vast production site with it. >You may find a very excellent bug that may trash all your work. > >If it makes you feel any better, we'll fix the bug if it's there. ;) Great, what about all the things mentioned in the 2.0.0a1 release notes? Release notes mention that alpha 2 "will be released in the week of May 26," which obviously did not happen. Are you behind schedule? The alpha 1 todo list is relatively serious, eg., "Most database adapters are likely to be problematic [...] when running Zope 2 with multiple threads" -- eek! Which ones are subject this to this problem? I could not find documentation on compatibility issues with ZODB2, either (probably covered on this list at some point; would you care to repeat?), ie. can I just copy by data.bbb into the alpha version? Do you recommend updating the sources from the public CVS after installing alpha 1? >-Michel > >> -- >> Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ >> "`This must be Thursday,' said Arthur to himself, sinking low over >> his beer, `I never could get the hang of Thursdays.'" >> --Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org >> http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope >> >> (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, >> zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >> >

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RE: [Zope] MVC pattern
by Jeffrey Shell 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

> From: steve(a)hosys.com [mailto:steve@hosys.com] > > Hello, > Does a template exist for implementing an MVC (VisualWorks > Smalltalk) like > structure for > Products. The Product example I have shows inheriting Zope > class info and > DTML info > into the "domain object". I'd like a pattern where the Python > objects remain > clean, are > wrapped by a value model, and linked via the value model with > a presentation > scheme (DTML). Some > code is presented below to the idea across but is not a suggested > implementation. No real template exists, but it's one I would like to see. Having spent some time looking at OpenStep recently, I believe even more firmly in it. ZClasses (part of Zope 2) do bring this closer to light. They make it fairly easy to write a user-interfaceless Product class on disk, and then you can subclass it through the ZClass interface (along with other classes, like ObjectManager or Folder), and you can create Property Sheets, Methods (ie, DTML methods and other external methods) and Views (tabs) for the new ZClass and its instances. We hope someday to have a way of being able to subclass normal Python classes this way with little or no fuss (ala the External Method/Pluggable Brain mechanisms) and bring Zope closer to one of the original ideas of Bobo -- publishing Python objects on the web. This will make it even easier to bring existing code into Zope. (I still love the fact that (a couple of years ago) I was able to turn an application from a socket-server based app to a Bobo app in a matter of hours). .jPS

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RE: [Zope] getting ext. method files in and out
by Rob Page 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

> is there anyway to put external method files into the extensions > directory through Zope? The reason this is not supported is that this would open up rather large holes in security. For better or worse, relying on filesystem access as the mechanism for getting external methods onto/off of the Zope server empowers the Unix SA to say 'yes' and/or 'no'. > i'm working exclusively through a remote machine. do i need to setup > my server to allow me to FTP or access that directory through some > other means? shouldn't i be able to do it through ZServer w/ a HTTP > PUT? This would work... IMO, the _best_ solution to this problem is to use ssh (and scp) which are essentially secure (i.e., encrypted) versions of telnet and cp (they do a WHOLE lot more as well). There are Unix and Win32 clients for both (although for some strange reason the Win32 scp doesn't recursively copy :( --Rob

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external search engines (altavista, etc.)
by Clarence T. Pate 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

I have just joined the list, but I have been reading about Zope for a while now. I think this package is cool! I also like the neat packages that were announced today. Can search engines such as AltaVista mine the information out of a Zope website. I have seen responses to other questions that there are ways to use a search engine to search a Zope website, but can the commercial laces search the website. It would be nice for other places to know about things in your website, unless you want it to be private. Clarence T. Pate

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RE: [Zope] ZORB3 Errors
by Michel Pelletier 16 Jun '99

16 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: J Kinsley [mailto:jkinsley@horus.bticc.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 4:55 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] ZORB3 Errors > > At this point, I have no idea how to go about solving the problem. I > have looked at the code and cannot immediately find anything wrong > with it, but as I stated before, I have only been using Python for a > few months so I may be overlooking something. > > Also, why does QuickStart show up using BoboPOS2 and not with ZORB3? > > Is anyone else using ZServer and getting these errors or am I the > only one who seems to have this problem? > BTW, it's called ZODB3 (Z Object Database) Everyone using Zope 2.0 alpha will get these errors. Neither of these two sections of the control panel have been implimented yet for 2.0 when using the ZODB3 database. Also, the quickstart database only comes up when you run Zope with the BoboPOS2 database. We will have different default content for the ZODB3 database. -Michel > Regards, > Jarrod Kinsley > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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