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RE: [Zope] <% ... %> ?
by Rob Page 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

<SNIPPED WAY OUT OF CONTEXT> > > and Zope can do smarter things with structured data on > > the server. > > I'm not so sure about this one. Zope has alot of structured > data now. For example, it would be pretty easy to find the > var references in a parsed DTML object, but I'm not sure how much > that gains you. Actually, I'd love to know, as part of some pseudo-automatic-documentation-generator all of the places where a var is used. For example, I'd like to know where I defined pApplicationName and every place I used it. --Rob

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RE: [Zope] <% ... %> ?
by Alex.Thomas＠dresdnerkb.com 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

I reckon this is a bit like the issues that will crop up when XML RPC gets established: soon people will want to put multiple calls in one message, then add in some conditional error handling etc. and before you know it XML will become a complete programming language. For this reason, I think that any XML rendition of logic should correspond to the serialization of statement objects (closures?) in a well-defined programming language, such as, er...., well, why don't we suggest one? I think this is the sort of thing that http://www.nombas.com are doing with their distributed Javascript, but there are several similar initiatives out there. cheers Alex -----Original Message----- From: Jules Allen [mailto:zope@jules.com] Sent: 15 June 1999 15:29 To: Paul Everitt Cc: Jim Fulton; zope(a)zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] <% ... %> ? At 08:36 AM 6/15/99 -0400, Paul Everitt wrote: >> What makes it hideous? Is it the noice characters? (!--#) >> Is it the number of shift characters? Is it the fact that >> DTML don't look like other tags? Is it the tag in an attribute >> problem mentioned above? > >I'd say, in order: > >1) It doesn't look like the competition. (which is largely <% or >inventing their own tags). > >2) Excessive noise. I'd swap those two around. Yes, PHP and ASP are similar but Cold Fusion is more like The Zope Way. I used CF before I used ASP, as Allaire obviously got there first, and my gut reaction to the <% %> delimiters after doing a couple of years of CF was "thank the Maker!" <cfThis> ... </cfThis> and <cfThat> ... </cfThat> is cumbersome to type, especially in the pre-HomeSite days. CF works exceptionally well for less technical end users as it's all a bunch of widgets. Learn or look up the syntax and Bob's your uncle: You're pulling stuff from databases and sending confirmation mails like a champion. Paul, you mentioned that the chasm between DTML and external methods is currently too great. I haven't had a chance to delve into externals yet but maybe this idea of that DTML is for Power Users is valid. I hate to suggest a Wizard but maybe some kind of DTML builder is necessary for those that need training wheels? I've already got a few test Zope/HomeSite definitions working. Maybe I'll get them finished up this weekend or next. Anybody know a good way to get permanent 4 day weekends? :-) >3) When something interesting requires the expr machinery, you can only >do one expression per line. (Note that this complaint isn't slated to >be solved by a syntax change in DTML, just that it is a common >complaint). I do understand your previous statement about separation of 'reporting' and 'logic' and I think it's a good one. However, from a user perspective, I only know how to clumsily use a hammer (DTML) right now so everything looks like a nail to me. Separation of Church and State is a lofty goal and both bleed into each other's turf. >[syntax/tool support observations snipped] > >Here's a chance for all of you folks out there with expertise in HTML >tools (Dreamweaver, FrontPage, Cyberstudio, Alpha, Emacs, etc.) to weigh >in. As I said, I've got sample HomeSite definitions on the go but I'd really like to get my head around doing a (vi|vim) definition style as it's a better editor for my needs. I've never done one but I'm sure it can't be that hard. Of course Emacs is a nice operating system but I prefer Linux at home so I can't comment on that ;-) >> > 2) Becoming well-formed means the authors can be given hints before >> > saving changes, >> >> Good point. Erm, #var seems kind of fluid and only a very, very smart editor would be able to offer hints effectively. >Let's say you rename a document. Nearly all the competition will update >all the references to the document. ...and links, etc... I'd also like to say how refreshing and intelligent the comments from everybody are. So far I can't find one email where anybody's been called an a**hole. ;-) ZINU-(Zope-is-Not-USENET)-ly-yrs, baby! Jules -- "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch." -- Tim <0.8 wink> Peters _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ########################################## This email, its content and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be legally privileged and/or confidential. Access by any other party is unauthorised without the express written permission of the sender. 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RE: [Zope] <% ... %> ?
by Paul Everitt 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

Jim wrote: > Do you mean only one line per expression? You can have > multiple expressions > per line *and* have multiple lines per expression:: > >  Sorry. You can only have one "expression" per var tag, meaning each "Python line" has to have the extra noise. --Paul

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RE: [Zope] Zope Consulting Available
by Paul Everitt 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

I just wanted to follow up and say that I'm happy to see this happening! Those of us in the Python and ILU communities certainly know about Jody, so I find it exciting that his formidable skills are available in the commercial side of Zope. We do have to be careful not to let this list get too far on the crass commercial messages, so I'll point out that Jody contacted me directly before posting this. I asked him to go ahead and told him I'd follow up with an endorsement. Welcome, Jody! --Paul Paul Everitt Digital Creations paul(a)digicool.com 540.371.6909 ----------------------------------------- The Open Source Zope application server http://www.zope.org/ ----------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Jody Winston [mailto:jody@ldeo.columbia.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 9:35 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Zope Consulting Available > > > xprt Computer Consulting, Inc. provides consulting, software > engineering, software support, and training. We have particular > expertise in the following areas that may be of interest to Zope > users: > o Designing and developing Zope applications for the > scientific community. > o Designing and developing very large Python applications. > o Designing and developing Distributed Object Oriented > applications in Python, C++, Java, and C. > If we can assist you in your project please contact Jody Winston. > > Sincerely > Jody Winston > xprt Computer Consulting, Inc. > jody(a)sccsi.com > 281 480 8649 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] How to configure Zope & Python environment
by Michel Pelletier 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: steve(a)hosys.com [mailto:steve@hosys.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 12:33 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] How to configure Zope & Python environment > > > Hello, > I am running Zope on windows using the builtin webserver and > attempting to > add a new Product. The way > I've been going about using Zope so far is to install a new > "Zope directory" > for each new project...not so > bad until I started trying to "compile" python code. It seems > to me I should > create a "default" install of > Zope and point my python path to those directories ? > > I am trying to compile the following Product code (below) and get the > following err message: > > Traceback (innermost last): > File > "C:\Tech\Lang\Python\Python152\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scrip > tutils.py", > line 237, in RunScript > exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__ > File > "C:\Zope\ProjectMgt\lib\python\Products\ProjectMgt\projobjs.py", line > 1, in ? > from Globals import HTMLFile, MessageDialog, Persistent > File "C:\Zope\ProjectMgt\lib\python\Globals.py", line 90, in ? > import Acquisition, ComputedAttribute, App.PersistentExtra, os > File > "C:\Zope\ProjectMgt\lib\python\App\PersistentExtra.py", line 87, in ? > from Persistence import Persistent > ImportError: cannot import name Persistent > First, you want to put any "Zope Products" in Zopedir/lib/python/Products. Here, your products can find everything they need. Also, Persistent is in the Persistence package. from Persistence import Persistent I'm not sure if it's still in Globals, but you should get it from Persistence anyway. -Michel

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Zope Consulting Available
by Jody Winston 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

xprt Computer Consulting, Inc. provides consulting, software engineering, software support, and training. We have particular expertise in the following areas that may be of interest to Zope users: o Designing and developing Zope applications for the scientific community. o Designing and developing very large Python applications. o Designing and developing Distributed Object Oriented applications in Python, C++, Java, and C. If we can assist you in your project please contact Jody Winston. Sincerely Jody Winston xprt Computer Consulting, Inc. jody(a)sccsi.com 281 480 8649

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How to configure Zope & Python environment
by steve＠hosys.com 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

Hello, I am running Zope on windows using the builtin webserver and attempting to add a new Product. The way I've been going about using Zope so far is to install a new "Zope directory" for each new project...not so bad until I started trying to "compile" python code. It seems to me I should create a "default" install of Zope and point my python path to those directories ? I am trying to compile the following Product code (below) and get the following err message: Traceback (innermost last): File "C:\Tech\Lang\Python\Python152\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", line 237, in RunScript exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__ File "C:\Zope\ProjectMgt\lib\python\Products\ProjectMgt\projobjs.py", line 1, in ? from Globals import HTMLFile, MessageDialog, Persistent File "C:\Zope\ProjectMgt\lib\python\Globals.py", line 90, in ? import Acquisition, ComputedAttribute, App.PersistentExtra, os File "C:\Zope\ProjectMgt\lib\python\App\PersistentExtra.py", line 87, in ? from Persistence import Persistent ImportError: cannot import name Persistent My path settings are at the end of the code below. #-------projobjs.py--------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ from Globals import HTMLFile, MessageDialog, Persistent import OFS.SimpleItem, Acquisition, AccessControl.Role import sys,DocumentTemplate projectDict = {} #MAPS PROJECT id string to PROJECT object taskDict = {} #MAPS TASK id string to TASK object class Project( OFS.SimpleItem.Item, Persistent, Acquisition.Implicit, AccessControl.Role.RoleManager, ): index_html = DocumentTemplate.HTMLFile("c:\Zope\ProjectMgt\lib\python\Products\ProjectMgt \project.dtml") _id = '' _name = '' _descr = '' _tasks = {} #list of Tasks I contain def __init__(self, projectID): self._id = projectID #setters def set_id(self, anID): self._id = anID def set_name(self, aName): self._name = aName def set_descr(self, aDescr): self._descr = aDescr def addTask(self, aTask): #require aTask not nul self._tasks[aTask.id()] = aTask #getters def id(self): return self._id def name(self): return self._name def descr(self): return self._descr #end class Project class Task: index_html = DocumentTemplate.HTMLFile("c:/Zope/ProjectMgt/lib/python/Products/ProjectMgt /task.dtml") _id = '' _name = '' _descr = '' _owner = '' #Person responsible for the task _project = '' #the project that contains me _budgeted_units = 0 _budgeted_unit_type = '' _budgeted_mhrs = 0 def __init__(self,ID): self._id = ID def test(self): #dump internals print('in Task test') #setters def set_id(self,anID): self._id = anID def set_name(self, aName): self._name = aName def set_descr(self, aDescr): self._descr = aDescr def set_project(self, aProject): #aProject: PROJECT self._project = aProject def set_budgeted_units(self,aUnits): #must match unit type self._budgeted_units = aUnits def set_budgeted_units__type(self,aUnitType): self._budgeted_units_type = aUnitType def set_budgeted_mhrs(self,aMHRS): self._budgeted_mhrs = aMHRS #getters def id(self): return self._id def name(self): return self._name def descr(self): return self._descr def budgeted_units(self): return self._budgeted_units def budgeted_units_type(self): return self._budgeted_units_type def budgeted_mhrs(self): return self._budgeted_mhrs #end class Task #---------------Call back functions for GUI------------------------ def addTaskToProject(aTaskID, aProjectID): #require valid id's and exist in the dictionaries prj = projectDict[aProjectID] task = taskDict[aTaskID] prj.addTask(task) #end addTaskToProject def createNewProject(anID,aName): p = Project(anID) p.set_name(aName) projectDict[p.id()] = p def createNewTask(anID,aName): t = Task(anID) t.set_name(aName) taskDict[t.id()]= t def dumpProjectDictContents(): for prjKey in projectDict.keys(): print 'project key: ' + prjKey + ' name: ' + projectDict[prjKey].name() def dumpTaskDictContents(): for key in taskDict.keys(): print 'task key: ' + key + ' name: ' + taskDict[key].name() def projectReport(): for prjKey in projectDict.keys(): print 'project key: ' + prjKey + ' name: ' + projectDict[prjKey].name() for taskKey in projectDict[prjKey]._tasks.keys(): print 'task key: ' + taskKey taskKey = '' #end createNewProject #-------------------------------------------------------------------- def testRun(): createNewProject('x123','Project A') createNewProject('y124','Project B') createNewProject('z125','Project C') # dumpProjectDictContents() createNewTask('t1231','Task A') createNewTask('t1232','Task B') createNewTask('t1233','Task C') createNewTask('t1241','Task D') createNewTask('t1242','Task E') createNewTask('t1251','Task F') createNewTask('t1252','Task G') # dumpTaskDictContents() addTaskToProject('t1231','x123') #some how all the tasks are added to all the projects addTaskToProject('t1241','y124') projectReport() #end testRun def testHTML(): t = Task('123') t.set_name('abc') t.set_descr('This is task abc easy as 123') print t.index_html(t) p = Project('456') p.set_name('def') p.set_descr('This is cool') print p.index_html(p) if __name__ == '__main__': #testRun() testHTML() set PYTHONPATH=.;c:\tech\lang\python\python152\lib;c:\tech\lang\python\python152 \lib-tk;c:\tech\lang\python\tcl\lib;c:\tech\lang\python\tcl\bin set PYTHONPATH=%PYTHONPATH%;c:\tech\lang\python\zopemodules set PYTHONPATH=%PYTHONPATH%;c:\tech\lang\python\zopemodules\DocumentTemplate set PYTHONPATH=%PYTHONPATH%;c:\tech\lang\python\zopemodules\Ofs set PYTHONPATH=%PYTHONPATH%;c:\tech\lang\python\zopemodules\ZPublisher set PYTHONPATH=%PYTHONPATH%;c:\tech\lang\python\zopemodules\Shared set PYTHONPATH=%PYTHONPATH%;c:\tech\lang\python\zopemodules\DateTime regards, Steve

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Software for Zope
by Tom Deprez 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

Hi, I've here a proposition and I'm wondering if people would find it usefull or not. At the Zope site, you can find a directory with all the contributed software in one list. I'm wondering if we can't split it up a bit and with some more information. Maybe we can start a new Zope Site? or if we may, put it in Zope site itself, ... or perhaps in ZDP (although this is not really full documentation related). What about splitting up the software in categories, like Portals, news group software, navigation, .... Then for every product, we place the following info (besides of the creators, home-page?, ...) : -An introduction to what the product does and is. -A small demo example (like slides or animated gifs we've seen at Portal toolkit) -For which versions of Zope it is tested. -A newsgroup or mailing list to which people can subscribe to kept informed about that product. What you all think about this? Tom.

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Re: [Zope] DTML reformulated as XML (was RE: [Zope] <% ... %> ?)
by Tony McDonald 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

>> I do want to point one thing out, though: adding namespaces does break >> the DTD. Currently there is no way to validate a document that uses > > Hmm, didn't realize that. > There's a big difference between validation (against a DTD) and well-formedness however. I suppose ideally you'll want validity, but for now (IMHO) stick with well-formedness (is that a word?). > > Here's one thing in DTML that would be awfully obscure in XML: > > <a href=""> > > That is, putting a tag inside an attribute. Chris Petrilli and Jim > talked about this today, perhaps as as entity references. > That'd be ok for the Zope variables that take no arguments (BASEn, URLn etc.) ie map BASE1 to &BASE1; but what about Zope variables that take attributes, eg ZopeTime fmt=whatever (for example, you'd use this awful construct to create a URL that had subparts such as /990612/) A very hairy problem. >> > At any rate, I'd love for someone in the Zope community to march off and >> > take a look at this, then make a proposal for how things should be >> > changed. As always, patches are accepted. :^) >> >> I've been meaning to do something like this. I might just spend some >> time thinking about it this weekend. Any actual coding probably won't >> happen, though. :) > > Understood. If you produced a clear definition of the goals, some > samples for the syntax, and a list of things that are good and bad about > it, then that would be a major win. > >> The simple stuff is easy: >> >> <?xml version='1.0'?> >> <xdtml:xdtml xmlns:xdtml="http://www.zope.org/xdtml" >> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1"> >> >> <xdtml:var name='standard_html_header'/> >> <h1><xdtml:var name='title'/></h1> >> <p>This is a paragraph.</p> >> >> <xdtml:if expr='age > 18'> >> <p>Text not everyone should read.</p> >> </xdtml:if> >> >> <xdtml:var name='standard_html_footer'/> >> >> </xtml:xdtml> > > I'd love to do a straw vote from the "I hate SSI" crowd: is the above > better? > No dis to Otto, but NIMHO. Too much typing. I'm from a PHP background where blocks of code exist in tandem with HTML. At first I had a real problem with DTML (still do, but that's another story :), but reading Paul and Chris' posts about separating code and data I realise that the DTML way is probably the best way to do it (as with so many other Zopey things). ps I don't hate SSI, and I don't have an alternative to the syntax Otto is describing - I should shut up now. >> The if gets really strange when you start adding 'elif' and 'else' >> clauses. I'll have to think about that one. >> >> The containing xdtml element is just there as a place to hang the >> namespace declarations off of. Also, it's there to make the DTML object >> a full-fledged self-contained XML document, needed to make any kind of >> editor useful. > > Precisely. It comes from the namespace declaration at the top. > > One more thing to muse over is whether other things from XML land should > surface. > > For instance, I've long wondered if the ubiquitous var tag should be > broken apart. People ask: why can't you give me a list of the things > that can go in the var tag? Why doesn't Zope check to see if my > documents reference subdocuments that no longer exist? The answer of > "it's too dynamic" feels like less than an answer. > > Instead, we could begin granularizing the tags, perhaps into things that > describe better where they came from. > > For instance, instead of saying , which > means insert a subdocument, why not use the XLink syntax from XML? > Would that not imply Zope parsing all elements in a page/object looking for attributes called xml:link? Isn't this a largeish overhead? It could also mean people writing <a xml:link="simple" href="standard_html_header" show="embed"/> instead of the above. Of course, if you get XLink stuff working in Zope, then presumably you get other interesting possibilities out too. rambling-ly yours, tone.

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1st european zope hosting provider
by webman 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

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