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PyDocuments proof of concept
by Martijn Faassen 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

Hi there, I've been announcing my proof of concept about DTML-esque Python in a few other posts to this list now. I've in fact posted it to the zope-dev list because it seems to belong there more than it belongs here. So if people are curious, please look at the zope-dev mailing list. Regards, Martijn

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Still trying no success
by Robert W. Canary 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

Well... still no succes with trying to get Zope to work. It seems to me that in order to get Zope to work I have to completely scrap my Apache and turn it into a Zope web server. I guess I am failing to see the concept here. Does Zope take over everything? I know this seems to be a strange question, but it seems from the rewrite rules that I have seen, that the only way to get Zope to work is if one configures the rewrite rule to examine and rewrite all cgi's so it will go through Zope. However, If I have a cgi-bin and I want to run a cgi from that directory then it is going to get filtered by the rewrite rule. The rewrite rule has a condition of ^/cgi-bin/Zope/(.*) and rewrites it to /home/httpd/cgi-bin/Zope/$1 according to the rewrite log (pasted below) I belive it is doing the rewrite correctly. (2) init rewrite engine with requested uri /cgi-bin/Zope/Zope.cgi/manage (3) applying pattern '^/cgi-bin/Zope/(.*)' to uri '/cgi-bin/Zope/Zope.cgi/manage' (4) RewriteCond: input='' pattern='^(.*)' => matched (2) rewrite /cgi-bin/Zope/Zope.cgi/manage -> /home/httpd/cgi-bin/Zope/Zope.cgi/manage (5) setting env variable 'HTTP_CGI_AUTHORIZATION' to '' (2) remember /home/httpd/cgi-bin/Zope/Zope.cgi/manage to have MIME-type 'application/x-httpd-cgi' (2) local path result: /home/httpd/cgi-bin/Zope/Zope.cgi/manage (1) go-ahead with /home/httpd/cgi-bin/Zope/Zope.cgi/manage [OK] (1) force filename /home/httpd/cgi-bin/Zope/Zope.cgi to have MIME-type 'application/x-httpd-cgi' I have created a var directory under the httpd directory and included everything that was under the /var/local/Zope directory, and given everything there owner:nobody group:nobody rwxrwxrwx. Yes. I altered the Zope.cgi to reflect these directory changes as well. Now the question is what does Apache do with the Zope.cgi? My access.conf includes a "<Directory /home/httpd/cgi-bin/Zope> Options ExecCGI </Directory>", and my srm.conf includes the line "ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/Zope/ /home/httpd/cgi-bin/Zope/" When I go to my browser and type http://localhost/cgi-bin/Zope/Zope.cgi I get this error: ! Temporarily Unavailable The rescource you have requested is temporarily unavailable - please try again later. (102) failure during connect Can someone tell me what this means, what cuases it? -- robert canary system services OhioCounty.Net rwcanary(a)ohiocounty.net (270)298-9331 Office (270)298-7449 Fax

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Custom rendering
by Alexander Staubo 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

I'd like to see a simpler way to implement custom "formatters", or "renderers" if you will. Please stop me if there exists a similar technology out there, bar structured text. If not, bear with me. Here's an example to illustrate what I need. All over my sites I have bits and pieces that should render consistently, but the HTML code needed is sufficiently complex that I prefer to relegate this code to a centralized method. Consider, for example: News In this case I might write a DTML Method that looks like this:  And which is invoked thus:  which is okay except when the Method might need some data from the common namespace, in which case I must call it like so:  or whatever. (Really, is there no way to pass the top namespace?) Anyway, if we assume that this is good practice -- the objective here is to separate style from content -- maybe we could invent the notion of a Render Method. I imagine the syntax could be something like News or, as an alternative syntax  And an example of passing arguments to the rendering method:  The Render Method could be a special object, otoh it could be just any callable object. Maybe rendering should not be limited to text, either, but any object that could be rendered by Zope. Afaik, today the only way to extend the  mechanism is to implement the method "foo" on the object "obj", and you can't easily do this with a piece of text. This is often useful, but not, I think, in the context of what seek to accomplish. -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "`This must be Thursday,' said Arthur to himself, sinking low over his beer, `I never could get the hang of Thursdays.'" --Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_

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RE: [Zope] DTML discussion at the moment
by Alexander Staubo 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

Martijn Faassen wrote: >Tom Deprez wrote: >> >> I'm not that familiar with Python, ASP etc. But, do keep in >mind that DTML >> was created to give non-programmers the oppertunity to get some nice >> webpages done. This idea should be kept the same. Perhaps >one could create >> two scripting languages : one which looks the same as a programming >> language and one, with less capabilities, but which can be used by >> non-programmers. Thus creating levels-of-use in the >scripting language > >I think that this is the idea already! Right now, we have DTML >documents/methods for HTML people. They can add some extra DTML tags to >talk to SQL or things written in Python. SQL is there for the database >people. Python is the full fledged programming language. for the >programmers. You can write external methods in it, products, and >apparently Digital Creations is working on a way to write Python safely >from within the Zope management screens. > >What currently happens perhaps too often is that people (the >programmers) use rather heavy-duty DTML tricks to accomplish things, >because using Python is too hard for those small things right now. [snip] Yep, but we mostly do it because wrapping things in an External Method is more painful than writing the equivalent code in DTML. Do a mistake in writing the EM that you have to restart Zope. There is no provision for writing the EM Python code through the Zope management interface -- for this reason I'd like to see a Script Method object which has a text-area field where you can write Python code. It'd definitely ease the transition to Python whenever this is needed. -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "`This must be Thursday,' said Arthur to himself, sinking low over his beer, `I never could get the hang of Thursdays.'" --Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_

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RE: URGENT: Can't start up zope
by Jay, Dylan 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

Ok, I've solved my own problem. I removed MailHost and modified this method in Product.py def _delObject(self,id): o = getattr(self, id) if hasattr(o, '_factories'): for factory in getattr(self, id)._factories(): factory._unregister() ProductFolder.inheritedAttribute('_delObject')(self, id) This allowed me to delete the strange object from the ProductManager in ContolPanel. Then when restarting with the MailHost product code put back everything was fine. I'd like to thank myself for the invaluable assistance I provided myself :) Now for my rant. How on earth did I get in this situation???? There are two serious problems here. 1) How on earth did an object get overridden by a completely different object. This might have something to do with object id's getting mixed up???? In any case its a really big bug and as I'm not sure when or how it happened I'm not sure how we can fix it. 2) It is a seriously problem if anything in the ODB can prevent zope starting. Since zope is only method of accessing the ODB then it can't be fixed (easily) unless Zope can be brought back up. It seems to me that much more care should be taken to find any unhandled exceptions in the zope init sequence. I disliked the idea of a putting all my data into some closed repository. I am completely left helpless if I want to rollback any changes in situations like this. There should be an intergration into a source control repository like CVS. Something that is file based so data can be manually edited. Also is there anyway to reduce the dependence of the main zope functionality on states kept inside the ODB? ie in this case is it necessary to keep persistant information on all the Products in the ODB? In short, Zope needs to be crash proof. How can we make this happen? > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay, Dylan > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 13:11 > To: 'zope(a)zope.org' > Cc: 'support(a)digicool.com' > Subject: Re: URGENT: Can't start up zope > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michel Pelletier > > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 2:42 PM > > To: 'djay(a)lucent.com'; zope(a)zope.org > > Cc: Support > > Subject: RE: URGENT: Can't start up zope. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dylan Jay [mailto:djay@cse.unsw.edu.au] > > > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 2:29 PM > > > To: zope(a)zope.org > > > Cc: support(a)digicool.com > > > Subject: URGENT: Can't start up zope. > > > > > > > > > I was doing some external method work on our production > > > server (silly boy) > > > and something went very wrong. Every time I start zope it > > > will crash. This > > > is both as an NT service and using ZHTTPServer. ZHTTPServer > > > gives a stack > > > dump that mentions initializing products and factories and stuff > > > (unfortunatly my office has a power outage currently so I > > > can't the dump > > > or the data.bbb until 5 hours or so). Using the bbb.py it > reports no > > > corruptions so I can only presume the database contains some > > > configurations that screws up zope. To make matters worse our > > > expensive > > > backup solution doesn't seem to have backed up data.bbb. > > > > > > > Can you send us this traceback? Did a power outage occour > > while the server was running? Did the machine not get shut > > down properly and this this problem happened? Or did it just > > happen after a clean shutdown (ie, what was the state of the > > server before coming up the first time with this error). > > No, It occured while testing an external method. > > Heres the dump > > C:\Program Files\Provision>..\python\python serve.py > Traceback (innermost last): > File "serve.py", line 100, in ? > ZopeHTTPServer.main(args) > File "C:\Program > Files\Provision\ZopeHTTPServer\ZopeHTTPServer.py", line 498, > in main > start(module_file,host,port,threading,env) > File "C:\Program > Files\Provision\ZopeHTTPServer\ZopeHTTPServer.py", line 436, > in start > set_published_module(module_file,BoboRequestHandler,env) > File "C:\Program > Files\Provision\ZopeHTTPServer\ZopeHTTPServer.py", line 432, > in set_published_module > __import__(name) # to catch problem modules right away > File "C:\Program Files\Provision\lib\python\Main.py", line 103, in ? > Bobobase=OFS.Application.open_bobobase() > File "C:\Program > Files\Provision\lib\python\OFS\Application.py", line 371, in > open_bobobase > install_products(app) > File "C:\Program > Files\Provision\lib\python\OFS\Application.py", line 486, in > install_products > App.Product.initializeProduct(product, product_name, > package_dir, app) > File "C:\Program > Files\Provision\lib\python\App\Product.py", line 428, in init > ializeProduct > if old is not None: products._delObject(name) > File "C:\Program > Files\Provision\lib\python\App\Product.py", line 145, in _del > Object > for factory in getattr(self, id)._factories(): > factory._unregister() > AttributeError: _factories > > Now that I've had some time to debug it a little, what I > discover is this. > The above crash happens while trying to initialize the > MailHost object. The reason is that getattr(self,id) in the > call above is actually a DTML object not a Factory object. > Somehow a piece of code got whacked in the wrong place. > I can now get the site up by removing the MailHost product. > However mail is an extermely important part of the site in > that no new user can register without it. When a shut it down > and add MailHost back in I get the same problem. What I need > to do is somehow take out what is posing as the MailHost > Product. I have no idea how to do this. > > I will resend this mail to digicool.com with my database > > > > -Michel > > > > > What I need to know are > > > a) What the likely causes of a something like I'm describing? > > > I realize I > > > havn't given much to go on, but ANY information you can give > > > me at this > > > point would very very appreciated. > > > b) What tools do I need to modify the data.bbb. I can convert > > > it xml ok > > > but it seems there's no way to convert it back. Is there any > > > tool where I > > > can just roll back the last few transactions? (This may not > > > work actually > > > as it was probably the external method that did the damage). > > > > > > In case its relevent I guess I should include some detail of > > > the external > > > method I was working on. It was a method to determine if > a user had > > > permission to view an object. It looked at a users roles > > and the roles > > > for the view permission. It would recurse with the parent if > > > the object > > > aquired roles. > > > > > > Thanks in advance for any ideas anyone has. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dylan. > > > djay(a)lucent.com > > > > >

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RE: [Zope] Running with WebSite Pro?
by Paul Everitt 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

Many web servers refuse to send authentication information to CGI scripts. I suggest using the recently-posted ISAPI connector: http://www.mop.no/~alex/download/zisapi-0.1.zip ...announced at: http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope/1999-June/005370.html --Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Phillip Beazley [mailto:pcbmls@futuresights.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 12:10 PM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Running with WebSite Pro? > > > Okay, I can't take it any longer. :) > > For the life of me, I cannot get Zope to work with WSP. Maybe it is, > but I can't get past the Authentication problem (i.e. can't get to > /manage). Anyone ever tried using it with WebSite Pro? If > so, please > let me know. We're definitely interested in hosting this. > > Thanks! > > -- > Phillip Beazley > FutureSights -- Web Hosting, Development & Marketing > Visit http://www.futuresights.com/ or call 727-577-SITE! > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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DTML discussion at the moment
by Tom Deprez 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

I'm not that familiar with Python, ASP etc. But, do keep in mind that DTML was created to give non-programmers the oppertunity to get some nice webpages done. This idea should be kept the same. Perhaps one could create two scripting languages : one which looks the same as a programming language and one, with less capabilities, but which can be used by non-programmers. Thus creating levels-of-use in the scripting language -Tom-

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RE: [Zope] ANNOUNCE: EXPERIMENTAL DTML Syntax change
by Paul Everitt 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

Jon wrote: > One question: why the hyphens? Why not: > > <dtml var standard_html_header> This makes it not a tag any longer -- var becomes an attribute of one "HTML" tag called dtml. --Paul

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Any experiences with Zope+Python+Cygwin?
by Miller, John M. 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

As a matter of curiosity, Has anyone had experience getting Python 1.5.2 and Zope to compile/build using the tools from Cygwin? If workable, this might provide an alternate solution to those out there without convenient access to Microsoft's DevStudio applications. I hope to give it the old college try myself, though my knowledge of Python, Zope, and Cygwin is embarrassingly deficient, at some point this week. Assuming the process does not turn me into a raving, suicidal lunatic (I'll be sure to leave important contact information with family and friends so I can be checked to be sure I haven't gone missing) I would be happy to write up my experiences if any are interested. Cheers, John

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DTML reformulated as XML (was RE: [Zope] <% ... %> ?)
by Otto Hammersmith 15 Jun '99

15 Jun '99

[reasons snipped for brevity] > Proposal > -------- > > _If_ these were the requirements, then I think a reasonable proposal is > XHTML: > > http://wdvl.com/Authoring/Languages/XML/XHTML/ > > http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/#future > > XHTML reworks HTML as an XML-compliant language. Most imporantly, you > can extend it with new namespaces (like Zope instructions) without > breaking the DTD, as is the case with ColdFusion et al. I'll start by saying, this is *absolutely* the right thing to do. I've been mulling over this exact idea, but haven't had the time to post something to the list. (Not that I've been playing with Zope overly long.) I do want to point one thing out, though: adding namespaces does break the DTD. Currently there is no way to validate a document that uses namespaces. This will be fixed, eventually. Until then, you just have to live with well-formed but not valid documents. (Well, you can define a special DTD that defines the namespace prefix as well, but then that defeats the ability to change the namespace prefix.) > Why? > > 1) Alledgely it is the future of HTML. > > 2) Becoming well-formed means the authors can be given hints before > saving changes, and Zope can do smarter things with structured data on > the server. > > Why Not? > > 1) A number of differences with HTML might drive people off. Purely syntactic: becomes and you can't leave out end tags () it's not so bad. Well, okay, I imagine there will be a lot of griping over the decision of enforce lowercase element names. :) > 2) It isn't here yet. Simple transformation makes XHTML into HTML, again for old clients. Probably so simple, it's not worth involving XSL. > 3) Zope syntax might not be mappable into XML. Close, but not quite. I'm sure it's possible to create an XML syntax that has all the functionality of DTML... however, it might very well end up being an ugly unwieldy syntax. > At any rate, I'd love for someone in the Zope community to march off and > take a look at this, then make a proposal for how things should be > changed. As always, patches are accepted. :^) I've been meaning to do something like this. I might just spend some time thinking about it this weekend. Any actual coding probably won't happen, though. :) The simple stuff is easy: <?xml version='1.0'?> <xdtml:xdtml xmlns:xdtml="http://www.zope.org/xdtml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1"> <xdtml:var name='standard_html_header'/> <h1><xdtml:var name='title'/></h1> This is a paragraph. <xdtml:if expr='age > 18'> Text not everyone should read. </xdtml:if> <xdtml:var name='standard_html_footer'/> </xtml:xdtml> The if gets really strange when you start adding 'elif' and 'else' clauses. I'll have to think about that one. The containing xdtml element is just there as a place to hang the namespace declarations off of. Also, it's there to make the DTML object a full-fledged self-contained XML document, needed to make any kind of editor useful. -Otto. (Please CC any replies to me, or I won't see it until the next digest goes out. :)

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