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RE: [Zope] Var includes
by Shaw, Howard 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

The challenge is that I have to do this using a string returned from an SQL query. This string must specify a multi-part reference: that is, a directory, and a file... Now, I can work around this by making it more structured; that is, the includes can only be in directory X. But I would really like to be able to put 'uid/studinfo' in the SQL and use that... Do I have to write an External Function to split the directory and perform the equivalent of nested 's to include this? I had hoped for a simple DTML based solution. > ---------- > From: Pavlos Christoforou[SMTP:pavlos@gaaros.msrc.sunysb.edu] > Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:37 AM > To: Shaw, Howard > Cc: 'Zope(a)zope.org' > Subject: Re: [Zope] Var includes > > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Shaw, Howard wrote: > > > Using 'var' to include acquired documents is easy. How can I use > 'var' > > to include a document in a folder in the hierarchy below me? > > > > I have a folder 'temp_people'. > > Beneath this is 'uid', and beneath this 'studinfo' > > I need to include the contents of 'uid/studinfo' in a document in > > temp_people that is dynamically generated. I tried > >  where location is from a surrounding 'in > sql > > method' call. I get a traceback saying: > > > >  > > > > Is there any reasonable way to put in my SQL table a simple > reference > > that can be reasonably used in DTML to get to a subfolder object? I > > don't want to have put DTML code in the SQL table and try and get it > > evaluated... > > > > I am not sure I understand what you need to do but you can call a > document > from down the hierarchy by simply: > >  >  >  > > This will render the studinfo document and include it in the current > document. > > Pavlos > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope >

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RE: [Zope] (Fwd) Zope musings
by Paul Everitt 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

Tom Jenkins writes: > Hi folks, > We're in the process of evaluating Zope and Cold Fusion. I'm the > resident Open Source advocate <g>, so I'd like to make sure that Zope > has all its benefits given its due. > > We're, (well actually Alan is), working on a contract where > the client > requested Cold Fusion so he has some direct experience. We installed > Principia back in December and actually are testing it for > another client, > but haven't spent much time with it unfortunately. > > Alan has brought up some usage concerns of his and I hope someone > on the list could respond. Please don't think that Alan is > against the > product; no in fact he is very interested in it but is just > unsure of the > tools available to help do good work. Understood. And thanks for sharing the points with the community. > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Date sent: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:08:00 -0500 > To: TomJenkins(a)zentuit.com > From: Alan Johnston <flames direct to me, please [g]> > Subject: Zope musings > > I don't know why I didn't think of this before. As you can tell from > earlier comments, I like Cold Fusion studio, the IDE which > allows you to > control web page, database, query, and site management all in > one window. > It is a very slick way to create web pages in general, > whether or not they > include CF tags and CF queries. Tis true. On the other hand, only developers can use CF Studio, unless you plan to plop down several thousand dollars, ship it to you customers, and then train them on it. Put another way: what if someone outside the company wanted to change a ColdFusion page? What would be their IDE? > But there's no reason you couldn't also use CF Studio to > develop Zope/DTML > pages. You would have to save your pages on a local drive > and use Zope's Don't suppose CF supports any standards, like saving to an FTP site or publishing using HTTP PUT? (Note that Zope's FTP support should be solid within a month.) > Upload feature to publish them. But that's a fairly small price in > inconvenience. Anyway, the lack of a nice, user-friendly > interface for web > page creation is the one klunky thing about Zope (Principia) > at our site. I certainly agree. We have spent a lot of time over the last month thinking about an IDE. The direction that we are going is: o choose an IDE strategy that reinforces Open Source, rather than attempt to annoint a proprietary tool like CF Studio o base the IDE strategy on advanced standards (HTML4, CSS2, DOM, XML, RDF, and WebDAV) It appears that I'll have more to say on this in about a month. Other efforts, such as integrating PythonWorks from Pythonware, are feasible as well. > Typing angle brackets and obscure HTML tags into your browser > is a fun way > to astound and impress your non-HTML-literate friends, but I > wouldn't have > wanted to make a Georgetown/CASS questionnaire system that way. And, > again, trying to use Netscape Composer, as recommended in the > Principia > docs is a sub-par solution. So this is really the one > (only?) area I've > seen so far where CF is way ahead Zope. If someone has Linux on their desktop, how do they manage CF sites? Let me ask a question that tries to quantify the situation. IMO, the current Zope IDE is pretty unproductive. On a scale of 1 to 100, its *productivity* level is about a 5 compared to NetObjects Fusion, Dreamweaver, etc. On other factors it shines -- it is based on standards, is completely portable, source code is available, is mind-numbingly easy to modify the IDE, etc. Just for argument, let's say that CF Studio is a 90. If we came out with an improved IDE that retained the factors listed above that CF Studio fails at, what number would it need to move up to for you to give an unqualified "Yes!" ?? > So if we want to use Zope for real-world tasks, one important > need in the > near term is to find a better way to do actual web page/HTML If *we* is your shop, how about...XEmacs? Using ZServer to publish your object system by HTTP, you can be *significantly* more productive: o fantastic editor that now runs deliciously on Windows o bulk copy from/to the local machine o all the ediff capabilities you could dream up o html-mode, etc. o using W3 in XEmacs, access to things like setting properties and undo It would still be missing a *whole* lot of things vs. CF Studio, such as link checkers, a list of variables that can be inserted, syntax colorization of the markup, etc. Let's say it moved up to a 25. --Paul Paul Everitt Digital Creations paul(a)digicool.com 540.371.6909

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Threaded Python 1.5.2b2 can break ExtensionClasses
by Brian Lenihan 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

Using Python1.5.2.b2 configured using "--with-threads" on a Linux glibc box, I found my Zope installation to be broken (1.10pr1) >From the Python1.5.2b2 ChangeLog: - Rolled back the API version change -- it's back to 1007 Zope/lib/Component/ExtensionClass/ThreadLock.c, line 54: #if PYTHON_API_VERSION > 1007 I rebuilt Zope after changing the #define to ">=" and everything is fine.

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RE: [Zope] size of text area in "Edit" view of Documents, and ext ernal editing
by Paul Everitt 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

> This is far too small for my liking, and I've found that the > Taller/Wider > buttons only work once - the result is still too small. My > question is: > can I alter the default height and width in the Zope source > somewhere - > if so where? (And why don't the change-size buttons work more > than once?) Hmm, it has worked for me on all browsers and platforms I've tried. What browser version on what OS are you using? > A second query is - can I save the DTML from the edit view to a file, > edit the file, and then upload the result to replace the > original DTML? > (Which might be far faster than using the browser window's > non-existsent > editing abilities :-) I agree that the TEXTAREA sucks as an editor. Even if we improved it by, say, including a Java editor applet like jEdit, it still wouldn't be *your* editor. These are highly personal decisions, which means there will never be *one* IDE. There are methods that give you a text-only version of the body sans management screen, though I don't know what they are. With ZServer, a GET on a document returns the contents and only the contents. Ultimately (meaning within the next two or three weeks) WebDAV will allow you to easily get at, from a Python script, whole chunks of a site. --Paul Paul Everitt Digital Creations paul(a)digicool.com 540.371.6909

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Var includes
by Shaw, Howard 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

Using 'var' to include acquired documents is easy. How can I use 'var' to include a document in a folder in the hierarchy below me? I have a folder 'temp_people'. Beneath this is 'uid', and beneath this 'studinfo' I need to include the contents of 'uid/studinfo' in a document in temp_people that is dynamically generated. I tried  where location is from a surrounding 'in sql method' call. I get a traceback saying:  Is there any reasonable way to put in my SQL table a simple reference that can be reasonably used in DTML to get to a subfolder object? I don't want to have put DTML code in the SQL table and try and get it evaluated... Howard C. Shaw III Grum

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RE: [Zope] Var includes
by Shaw, Howard 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

I thought about doing something like        But again I get bitten by the inability of DTML to edit the containing namespace. I think I asked a question about this earlier, but I don't remember getting a response. Is there no alternative to 'with'? Nothing that doesn't have to be a start and end? If there was only a way to change the outer namespace this would be easy! > ---------- > From: Pavlos Christoforou[SMTP:pavlos@gaaros.msrc.sunysb.edu] > Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:37 AM > To: Shaw, Howard > Cc: 'Zope(a)zope.org' > Subject: Re: [Zope] Var includes > > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Shaw, Howard wrote: > > > Using 'var' to include acquired documents is easy. How can I use > 'var' > > to include a document in a folder in the hierarchy below me? > > > > I have a folder 'temp_people'. > > Beneath this is 'uid', and beneath this 'studinfo' > > I need to include the contents of 'uid/studinfo' in a document in > > temp_people that is dynamically generated. I tried > >  where location is from a surrounding 'in > sql > > method' call. I get a traceback saying: > > > >  > > > > Is there any reasonable way to put in my SQL table a simple > reference > > that can be reasonably used in DTML to get to a subfolder object? I > > don't want to have put DTML code in the SQL table and try and get it > > evaluated... > > > > I am not sure I understand what you need to do but you can call a > document > from down the hierarchy by simply: > >  >  >  > > This will render the studinfo document and include it in the current > document. > > Pavlos > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope >

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Apache and Zope
by Philip Aylesworth 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

I am currently evaluating Zope for our company intranet (which is currently running IIS on NT, Apache on Linux, Perl CGI on both, and MySQL on Linux. I am pretty impressed with how easily things work in Zope (once you figure it out). There is so much dynamic content on it that I think Zope will be perfect. I have a couple of questions that I haven't started to tackle yet. Why would I use Apache with Zope when it has its own HTTP server and seems to run okay (even right along side Apache)? Can I check the existance of external files from within Zope? I have a data base of CAD files. If they exist on a server I create a link to them, if they don't I just list them. Can I import data from a text file? I am currently using Perl to suck data from a text file that changes every day and throw it into MySQL. Can I continue to run this along side of Zope? Should work, right? How can I transfer my Zope stuff (Object database is it?) to another machine once I decide to impliment it on a real server? I guess I mean what files do I need and is there anything that will cause me grief? (I read the postings about the person who wants to copy one website to many servers. It looks like a non-trivial problem.) Thanks, Phil. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Philip Aylesworth Information Systems Manager phila(a)regalint.com PGP public key: http://www.regalint.com/PGPkeys/phila.html

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RE: [Zope] Apache and Zope
by Paul Everitt 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

Philip wrote: > Why would I use Apache with Zope when it has its own HTTP > server and seems > to run okay (even right along side Apache)? o Browsers and protocols are finicky. Apache represents years of accumulated wisdom in this field. o People trust Apache. It is a known quantity. o Apache has robust logging facilities. o Apache has a number of facilities that some find interesting, such as SSL. > Can I check the existance of external files from within Zope? > I have a data > base of CAD files. If they exist on a server I create a link > to them, if > they don't I just list them. Yes, you could do this in probably ten lines of an External Method written in Python. If you wanted it to become a manageable facility (e.g. giving it a management screen, security settings, extended configuration knobs) you could write it as a Product. > Can I import data from a text file? I am currently using Perl > to suck data > from a text file that changes every day and throw it into MySQL. Can I > continue to run this along side of Zope? Should work, right? You could continue doing it the way you are doing it right now and just connect to MySQL. Alternatively you could write a ten line External Method and import the data into Zope. > How can I transfer my Zope stuff (Object database is it?) to another > machine once I decide to impliment it on a real server? I > guess I mean what > files do I need and is there anything that will cause me > grief? (I read the > postings about the person who wants to copy one website to > many servers. It > looks like a non-trivial problem.) Zope 1.10 has formalized the import/export machinery by adding a tab for an "Import/Export" view to the management screen. It allows you to package up a folder into an export file, move it to another machine and import it from the new machine's filesystem. --Paul

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Zope search engine
by Kent Polk 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

Regarding search indexing... The builtin Zope Find manager appears to provide searches constrained by: - object type - ids - full-text matches (containing) - mod dates - folder I would like to be able to provide application-specific index/search capabilities. Here's my view: search by: - object type. Be able to easily specify a new object type to constrain searching. Seems Zope has that covered. - ids. This is a search 'by name'. Covered? - attribute. This could correspond to a bibliographic search. Paul mentioned Brian's addition that lets one set object attributes via tags in a document. One might also consider providing an 'index_bibliography' or 'index_attribute' method which, if it exists, would allow an application manager to provide a way to index document bib's. This would make it easier to index sql document collections or filesystem document collections without having to have the info directly stored in the Zope database. - full-text. Existing appears to be for exact matched internal documents? I'd like to see the indexer look for an additional 'index_body' method which, if it exists, would allow an app developer to provide a way to index text documents that possibly aren't in the Zope Database. - query language. Needs one. Not sure how well featured it needs to be. - mod dates. Need a way to register mod-dates as an attribute for query results, etc. Intentionally vague here as I don't know what the answer should be. However, it seems to be to go completely against the grain of Zope to only provide datestamp capabilities for simple objects. The whole idea of Zope (to me) is to provide automated site facilities to manage large document collections and to be able to build those documents from content objects. For example, 4 years ago I worked on a project for the NRC which stored SGML'ed document content in an Oracle database. It was almost REALLY cool as you could build a document by performing an SQL query that collected the results, evaluated the SGML and produced the report according to your desires (almost). It then date-stamped the document according to deterministic rules. That experience greatly shaped how I view information and it is at odds with the way that most people think. Fortunately for me, I think they are wrong. :^) The QRS reporting system that Ty and I developed with Principia is similar to the NRC system in that you perform a query, a document is built, edited, published in html/pdf/postscript on the fly, referenced, with a complete modification transaction history available, etc. Each document has a variety of dates associated with it and rules are available to set a moddate (expiration date also, etc). I'd like to see (again) a method available to set the moddate for objects that aren't statically in the Zope object database, even though their parts may be in there, such as Z Tables or even TinyTables databased documents. I would like for the index method to have access to the moddate. Not sure if it really needs to be further a part of Zope... Yes, this moddate could just be another attribute, and maybe it should done be that way, but I just want to make sure the index engine has a way of accessing it and knowing that it is the 'official' moddate for that object. I've also been experimenting with publishing filesystem-stored base documents. As another person just mentioned, I have a customer who insists that the base document information be stored in the filesystem. I can provide the mod-date, but again, I need a way to let Zope call indexing methods which I could provide for these different applications. Comments? What are you DC guys thinking of for a search engine? Thanks! Kent

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size of text area in "Edit" view of Documents, and external editing
by piers＠cs.su.oz.au 19 Feb '99

19 Feb '99

I have a query about the size of the text area in "Edit" views of Documents. This is far too small for my liking, and I've found that the Taller/Wider buttons only work once - the result is still too small. My question is: can I alter the default height and width in the Zope source somewhere - if so where? (And why don't the change-size buttons work more than once?) A second query is - can I save the DTML from the edit view to a file, edit the file, and then upload the result to replace the original DTML? (Which might be far faster than using the browser window's non-existsent editing abilities :-) Apologies if this is a FAQ - but when I tried to search the archive, I got Sorry, eGroups.com is temporarily unavailable.

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