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Questions concerning development in Zope
by Iwan van der Kleyn 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

I work as senior developer/architect for a software development company in The Netherlands which focusses its activitites on web-development with J2EE, DOT.NET and PHP. Development in Zope/Python has never been an option for management because yet another platform would be too much of an investment considering Zope's minimal market share in Holland. Besides, the mindshare of Python at our premises is nill apart from myself. However, recently a customer has shown great interest in Zope (thanks to some slick presentation of Plone) and they are willing to make a signicant investment. I'm now in the rather weird position of having to win the sceptics over to join the Zope fray. To be perfectly honest, I have some lingering doubts and uncertainties. So therefore I would like to pose the following questions regarding development in Zope: * Zope is often criticised for its perceived lack of documentation. Although the current Zope book seems to have improved greatly, I still miss a good reference guide/book on advanded topics (the Development Guide seems to have stuck at version 2.4 and is rather limited). Which book(s) can fullfill this role? * Zope seems to lack a dominant development methodology/paradigm. DOT.NET has got form-based ASP.NET/ADO.NET, Java has MVC with Struts/J2EE, PHP has either form-based or MVC with Pear/Smarty. What shoudl I use in Zope? ZTP with Scripts? Or external Methods? ZCLasses? Products? * Releated to the former question: ASP.NET and PHP (through Pear) excell in easy (fast!) form-based development. What functionality can Zope offer? I've seen some references to a " Formulator" product. * Plone seems to be all the rage. But is Plone usable as an application framework? Can I use Plone for form-based, data-driven applications? * Thanks to Python's Global Interpreter Lock, Python programs don't scale well on SMP systems. Which is a "must have" in our situation. I' ve found some references to using ZEO to circumvent this, effectively running multiple instances of Zope on one server. Is there any documentation to be found on this subject? And how proven is this solution? * And finally (which makes me come across somowhat like a Troll, sorry about that :-). What is the "life expectancy" of Zope? Most of the hype regarding Zope seems to have died away somewhat. Recently its coming back in the slipstream of Plone. But realistically, what are the chances of Zope being a *relevant* application platform in a couple of years time? WIth "relevant" I mean: a platform which is well supported and keeps up with the compettition on *features*, not necessarilly market share. Many thanks, Iwan

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Calling dynamic zsql method from zpt?
by Nick Bower 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

I've searched everywhere for a seamingly obvious thing to have in the documentation - how to call a dynamic zsql method from a zope page template using arguments. What I need is something like this: <div tal:define="sqlRows nocall:here/ZSQLTerritoryList(parent_id=parent_id)"> <select name="country_list"> <option value="">ANY</option> <option tal:repeat="sqlRow sqlRows" ... etc... but obviously the first line of code doesn't work. How else are variables passed do zsql methods from page templates? Thanks, Nick

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Re: [Zope] ObjectManager example needed
by J Cameron Cooper 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Andre Meyer wrote: >After the success yesterday with your help I continued and struggled again >with a similar problem: the reference from the zpt page where I list the >pieces of music is ok (title appears now instead of id), but when I go to >the edit page of a piece the URL base is modified such that I am suddenly >referencing a level deeper, ie. in a subdirectiry with the id of the piece. >From there I need to reference the composer object in a different way. It >works "manually" when entering: here/../3/title, assuming the composer id is >3. I cannot find any way in which I can do that in a generic way. Any idea? > I'm not sure I can say with any degree of specificity without knowing better the structure of your data, and I would just be wasting time in guessing. (I can often do a fair bit of mind-reading, but it doesn't seem to be working this time.) However, I suspect you're making it harder on yourself than it really is. Go back and think about acquisition and the structure of your data and look at my last message again. I'm adding the list on this again. It's a good idea, if for no other reason (and there are plenty) than I might drop off the face of the planet at any moment. --jcc

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"Error(200) zdaemon process 859 terminated by signal SIGXFSZ(25)" What I have done So far
by Chuck Aamdi 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

LFS = Large File Support Python 2.2 includes this automatically if the platform supports it. For Python 2.1 it must be enabled explicitely. To check if it works for you, locate and execute test_largefile.py I have run the following script python /usr/local/zope2/Zope-2.6.1/lib/python2.1/test/test_largefile.py And I have packed the ZODB Database which I will do regularly . I am aware that Zope keeps track of each change on the O/S hard disk and processes utilise the O/S hard disk and regularly used Zope objects are cached and thus I have increased my cache from 400 to 8000 and now havd support for LFS . My FileStorage didn't exceed 2G and I still didn't establish why I recieved *zdaemon SIGXFSZ!* *error . "Error(200) zdaemon process 859 terminated by signal SIGXFSZ(25)" *I did notice that in my *var directory *had to many to mention Data.fs.tr328375 and loads more numbered DatA.fs.tr files. I am led to beleieve that only thess should be in this directory and all Zope Content is stored in Data.fs File. Data.fs Data.fs.index Data.fs.old Data.fs.tmp pcgi.pid Z2.log Data.fs.in Data.fs.lock gadfly pcgi.soc Z2.pid NB - I am slowly gettting into administering Zope CMS . I am now looking at python to get a better understanding So thanx for your help . Regards Chuck *.* -- Chuck Amadi, ICT Systems Programmer, Brecon Beacons National Park Authority Direct Line: 01874 620440 FAX: 01874 622574 EMAIL: chuck.amadi(a)breconbeacons.org _______________________________________ \ \ \ Chuck Amadi,ICT Systems Programmer \ __________ | \ \ / \___-=O`/|O`/___| \ . \_______\ / | / ) / / `/-==__ _/__|/__=--| / / * \ | | / / (o) /______________________________________/ Nid yw'r farn a fynegir gan anfonwr y neges hon o anghenraid yn adlewyrchu barn Awdurdod Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog. Neges yw hon a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd/derbynyddion yn unig ac fe'i hanfonir yn gyfrinachol; os ydych yn ei dderbyn mewn camgymeriad, a fyddech gystal %/1??iso8859-15?â rhoi gwybod i ni (yn it(a)breconbeacons.org) ac yna dil%/1??iso8859-15?ëwch bob copi. The views expressed by the sender of this message don't necessarily represent those of Brecon Beacons National Park Authority. This message is intended for the addressee(s) only and is sent in confidence; if you receive it in error, please can you let us know (at it(a)breconbeacons.org) and then destroy all copies. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brecon Beacons National Park Authority takes every care to keep its network free from viruses. All emails are scanned and verified virus-free by Sophos Anti-Virus software. *** IT IS THE RECIPIENTS RESPONSIBILITY TO CHECK ALL MESSAGES FOR VIRUSES ***

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Re: [Zope] Questions concerning development in Zope
by Michael Havard 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

>* Zope is often criticised for its perceived lack of documentation. >Although the current Zope book seems to have improved greatly, I still miss >a good reference guide/book on advanded topics (the Development Guide seems >to have stuck at version 2.4 and is rather limited). Which book(s) can >fullfill this role? There are some 'holes' in documentation but... to fill in those holes there are user groups, websites like ZOPELabs.com, quite a few user created tutorials and technical quides, and of course this list. I think ZOPE is under such heavy developement over the past year or so that it's been a little bit of a moving target to create new documentation for books and such. >* Zope seems to lack a dominant development methodology/paradigm. DOT.NET >has got form-based ASP.NET/ADO.NET, Java has MVC with Struts/J2EE, PHP has >either form-based or MVC with Pear/Smarty. What shoudl I use in Zope? ZTP >with Scripts? Or external Methods? ZCLasses? Products? That's a little bit of an apples/oranges comparison I think. Most of the development being done within ZOPE isn't ground up developement, it's adding on/extending existing products or objects. Again, I think because ZOPE is a continually growing/living/breathing framework that it's difficult at this point to pick ONE development methodology. What you use INSIDE of ZOPE is really defined by what you want to do WITH ZOPE. Mostly you'll work with ZPT (maybe DTML) and some python scripts, you might end up taking it a step farther and making a simple Product just to keep things tidy. Then depending on your needs you might need to provide some external methods. Pretty much everyone I've heard from lately has said "Stay away from ZCLasses" and many of the Products out there have shifted away from ZClasses. >* Releated to the former question: ASP.NET and PHP (through Pear) excell in >easy (fast!) form-based development. What functionality can Zope offer? >I've seen some references to a " Formulator" product. Fast is a relative term. I hear that Formulator is good as well as ArcheTypes. ArcheTypes seems to have more meat to it though and is being used as a base for other products as well. Most of the development that you do in ZOPE is from the webform, either one provided by ZOPE/CMF/Product 'X' or one you create/customize. It might be a ZMI form or a CMF Content Type edit form, or a form generated from a python script. Some of those forms aren't anything more than a textarea but it just all depends on what kind of development that you need to do. >* Plone seems to be all the rage. But is Plone usable as an application >framework? Can I use Plone for form-based, data-driven applications? Plone is great. It's essentially a repackaging of products in conjunction with the CMF and some custom work on templates, workflows, and scripts. Plone is very usable and can be customized (because it's all ZOPE underneath) to fullfill any needs that ZOPE can fullfill. It doesn't have any 'magic' underneath that makes it any more extensible than the base ZOPE product but it does have some 'nice-to-haves'. Just like from the previous question you could use Formulator or Archetypes to help with content types and forms. If you need to get into a database you could use ZSQL and forms to provide a 'data driven' UI. Right now we use ZOPE, CMF, DCOracle2, ZSQL, ZPT, Python Script, and a very basic custom Product to create a "Client Record". The Client Record lives in two parts, a metadata 'stub' housed in the ZOPE database and 72 fields of information housed in 5 tables in an Oracle database. Users can update the Oracle information directly from the ZOPE UI using a custom edit form. They can also view the information using a custom view form. Forms, permissions, field properties, zsql, et al are packaged as a Product so that we can keep it all organized neatly. >* Thanks to Python's Global Interpreter Lock, Python programs don't scale >well on SMP systems. Which is a "must have" in our situation. I' ve found >some references to using ZEO to circumvent this, effectively running >multiple instances of Zope on one server. Is there any documentation to be >found on this subject? And how proven is this solution? Can't really comment on how Python programs scale... However many applications use multiple instances as a means of load balancing and scaling. Currently we run Silverstream for some application server stuff. We found that one instance of silverstream would die or seriously degrade after 60-75 people got on. They looked for all kinds of solutions, but at the end of the day the solution was "startup another instance of Silverstream". We now have 50 or so instances running 50 or so users each, with a load balancer deciding where new users go. All of the instances use one repository for their data and it works out fairly well. Sometimes it's just better to run 50 small programs than it is to run ONE massive program. People are using the same strategy for ZOPE creating multiple ZEO clients either on a single machine or across multiple machines to provide scalability, failover, and reliability. I think it's a pretty proven strategy. >* And finally (which makes me come across somowhat like a Troll, sorry >about that :-). What is the "life expectancy" of Zope? Most of the hype >regarding Zope seems to have died away somewhat. Recently its coming back >in the slipstream of Plone. But realistically, what are the chances of Zope >being a *relevant* application platform in a couple of years time? WIth >"relevant" I mean: a platform which is well supported and keeps up with >the compettition on *features*, not necessarilly market share. We reviewed many (MANY) application servers and content management systems over the last few years. Out of all of those systems ZOPE really stood out on it's own. For example, we looked at creating/purchasing a solution based on Vignette. The quickest we could get a solution that met our needs was going to be at least 6 months - we'd have to hire a TCL developer, add some more licensing at a few hundred thousand dollars, purchase another 'package' from Vignette to meet a gap in the base product, possibly purchase more hardware to handle the load of new users, etc. There were a hundred more products out there just like Vignette that did little to nothing right out of the box and required substantial amounts of customization and resources to get it to where it would just work. Then we reviewed ZOPE. ZOPE/CMF worked right out of "the box". It was structured in such a way that it was easy to customize and easy to add on additional products where there was a gap. The learning curve for development was relatively low. It would run on multiple platforms and access multiple databases. It had mature managment interfaces in place and worked as expected. So from a feature perspective it beat many of the other products out based on our particular needs. Some would say that's because it fills a "niche" market. I think our needs were pretty robust though and ZOPE has the flexibility to meet much more than we throw at it. That was a year ago. Before that time I'd never heard of ZOPE. Even today I don't see much press about it or hear my colleagues talking about it, so I'm not sure about the "hype" part of the ZOPE equation. What I know about hype is that often after it dies down it's either because the product is dying or because the product has "settled" (meaning become accepted as a plausible solution to a need). ZOPE show's no signs of having died and in fact shows all the signs of a good living product with growing support abroad. There are plenty of documents out there that will help you in promoting ZOPE as a business solution. When we evaluated it we evaluated based on functionality alone (I was asked to exclude price and support cost). I think evaluating it on those criteria first is your best bet. Then as the clincher include the costs involved in licensing and support. _________________________________________________________________ online games and music with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)

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How to call a python script within a Z-SQL method?
by Julian Clark 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Hello list. I'm trying to pass a result (or column of results) to a python script, within an SQL query. SELECT dealer_no, COUNT(mobile_no) as connects, entry_date FROM connects WHERE entry_date >= #2003/11/20# GROUP BY dealer_no, entry_date where I'm wanting entry_date to be passed to a python script (and have the result returned as part of the sql query) How Can I do something like this? ***************************** SELECT dealer_no, COUNT(mobile_no) as connects, <dtml-call to_month(entry_date)> FROM connects WHERE entry_date >= #2003/11/20# GROUP BY dealer_no, entry_date ***************************** ###to_month return input.mm() Thanks Muchly Regards, Julian Clark

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ZopeTestCase testZODBCompat fails :-(
by Terry Hancock 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

I've recently run into the need to start unit testing code which needs access to Zope, and it looks like ZopeTestCase may be the most recent / best way to do this. I currently have installed: Python 2.1.3, Zope 2.5.1, ZopeTestCase 0.8.4 I tried installing ZopeTestCase and did the installation exactly as described in INSTALL.stx. I have an INSTANCE_HOME type of Zope installation with no ZEO and am using filestorage. I have shut down my Zope server and set up my environment correctly as if I were going to start Zope (I know this works, because I use it routinely to do interactive testing of new objects when I'm working on them -- from this configuration, I'm able to import Zope, get the site object (i.e. Zope.app()) etc.). Running runalltests.py results in an apparently complete failure of the testZODBCompat tests. I figure this must mean there's something unusual about my installation, or that the instructions for ZopeTestCase are overlooking something. The actual report is pasted below. Is this a common situation? What should I be looking for to fix this? Does this have to be fixed before I can proceed? Cheers, Terry Actual output from runalltests.py: SOFTWARE_HOME: /usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python INSTANCE_HOME: /usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python/Testing Loading Zope, please stand by ... done (2.801s) Installing PythonScripts ... done (0.074s) Importing Examples.zexp ... done (3.342s) .............................EEEEEEEE.......FF.............................................. ====================================================================== ERROR: testCOPY (testZODBCompat.TestCopyPaste) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python/Testing/ZopeTestCase/ZopeTestCase.py", line 109, in setUp self.afterSetUp() File "testZODBCompat.py", line 31, in afterSetUp self.assertEqual(self.folder._p_jar, None) File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: <ZODB.Connection.Connection instance at 0x85aa074> != None ====================================================================== ERROR: testClone (testZODBCompat.TestCopyPaste) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python/Testing/ZopeTestCase/ZopeTestCase.py", line 109, in setUp self.afterSetUp() File "testZODBCompat.py", line 31, in afterSetUp self.assertEqual(self.folder._p_jar, None) File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: <ZODB.Connection.Connection instance at 0x85aa074> != None ====================================================================== ERROR: testCopyPaste (testZODBCompat.TestCopyPaste) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python/Testing/ZopeTestCase/ZopeTestCase.py", line 109, in setUp self.afterSetUp() File "testZODBCompat.py", line 31, in afterSetUp self.assertEqual(self.folder._p_jar, None) File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: <ZODB.Connection.Connection instance at 0x85aa074> != None ====================================================================== ERROR: testCutPaste (testZODBCompat.TestCopyPaste) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python/Testing/ZopeTestCase/ZopeTestCase.py", line 109, in setUp self.afterSetUp() File "testZODBCompat.py", line 31, in afterSetUp self.assertEqual(self.folder._p_jar, None) File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: <ZODB.Connection.Connection instance at 0x85aa074> != None ====================================================================== ERROR: testMOVE (testZODBCompat.TestCopyPaste) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python/Testing/ZopeTestCase/ZopeTestCase.py", line 109, in setUp self.afterSetUp() File "testZODBCompat.py", line 31, in afterSetUp self.assertEqual(self.folder._p_jar, None) File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: <ZODB.Connection.Connection instance at 0x85aa074> != None ====================================================================== ERROR: testRename (testZODBCompat.TestCopyPaste) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python/Testing/ZopeTestCase/ZopeTestCase.py", line 109, in setUp self.afterSetUp() File "testZODBCompat.py", line 31, in afterSetUp self.assertEqual(self.folder._p_jar, None) File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: <ZODB.Connection.Connection instance at 0x85aa074> != None ====================================================================== ERROR: testExport (testZODBCompat.TestImportExport) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python/Testing/ZopeTestCase/ZopeTestCase.py", line 109, in setUp self.afterSetUp() File "testZODBCompat.py", line 81, in afterSetUp self.assertEqual(self.folder._p_jar, None) File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: <ZODB.Connection.Connection instance at 0x85aa074> != None ====================================================================== ERROR: testImport (testZODBCompat.TestImportExport) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/narya/z2.5.1/lib/python/Testing/ZopeTestCase/ZopeTestCase.py", line 109, in setUp self.afterSetUp() File "testZODBCompat.py", line 81, in afterSetUp self.assertEqual(self.folder._p_jar, None) File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: <ZODB.Connection.Connection instance at 0x85aa074> != None ====================================================================== FAIL: testVolatile_02 (testZODBCompat.TestSpecialAttributes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "testZODBCompat.py", line 190, in testVolatile_02 self.assertEqual(self.dummy._v_foo, 'foo') File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: None != foo ====================================================================== FAIL: testVolatile_03 (testZODBCompat.TestSpecialAttributes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "testZODBCompat.py", line 195, in testVolatile_03 self.assertEqual(self.dummy._v_foo, 'bar') File "/usr/local/narya/lib/python2.1/unittest.py", line 273, in failUnlessEqual raise self.failureException, (msg or '%s != %s' % (first, second)) AssertionError: None != bar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ran 92 tests in 3.741s FAILED (failures=2, errors=8) -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com

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RE: [Zope] Is HTTP_MANAGE EnvVar only in Plone? and -w mapping
by Wilson, Derek 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

I've had success deleting accesRule.py as well as the PLONE directory, and siteroot object. That will strip it down to just Zope. Thanks, Derek Wilson -----Original Message----- From: Michael Dexter [mailto:dexter@ambidexter.com] Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 10:43 AM To: zope(a)zope.org Subject: [Zope] Is HTTP_MANAGE EnvVar only in Plone? and -w mapping I partially figured it out (trying to reduce Plone down to Zope), it seems HTTP_MANAGE plays a trick with the accessRule.py External Method to set the Plone default location, which I am trying to cleanly nuke. That said, if using -w to have Zope listen on multiple ports, does each port get "mapped" to a location/URL in Zope/ZODB? Thanks, Michael. _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

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Is HTTP_MANAGE EnvVar only in Plone? and -w mapping
by Michael Dexter 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

I partially figured it out (trying to reduce Plone down to Zope), it seems HTTP_MANAGE plays a trick with the accessRule.py External Method to set the Plone default location, which I am trying to cleanly nuke. That said, if using -w to have Zope listen on multiple ports, does each port get "mapped" to a location/URL in Zope/ZODB? Thanks, Michael.

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Is HTTP_MANAGE EnvVar only in Plone? and -w mapping
by Michael Dexter 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Hello, I see that the HTTP_MANAGE Environment Variable is "passed in to Zope" during Plone initialization but I do not see it mentioned in the Zope Book "Installing and Starting Zope" list of flags and variables. Is HTTP_MANAGE "official?" In Plone it directs it to the standard Zope default page, which seems a stretch of the metaphor, given "/manage". On OS X, the startup command appears to be expanded to: /Applications/Plone/Python/bin/python /Applications/Plone/Zope/z2.py -X -w 8500 -w 8585 -W 8586 -f - INSTANCE_HOME=/Applications/Plone/Data HTTP_MANAGE=8585 8500 gives Plone 8585 gives Zope and I am not clear if the -w's are simply matched to "INSTANCE_HOME" and "HTTP_MANAGE" according to their sequence, which seems it could be error prone. IF the case, could I add a thrid -w such as 8590? Perhaps the issue at hand is, how do I map each directory to each -w port declaration? Thanks! Michael.

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