June 1999 - Zope - Zope lists

What I want to do (was RE: URGENT: Can't start up zope)
by Bruce Dillahunty 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

I want to toss something into this discussion... I'm a newbie to Zope (just found it last week or so), but it seems like it could be a good way to work on a project I am dealing with... I have quoted some of the below since it applies to some of my questions... > I'd like to play devil's advocate here for a moment > - can you > give me an example of an application where ad-hoc > reports on > _Zope_ object data are a requirement? Why would you > not use Zope's > relational database integration tools (SQL Methods, > etc.), to > deal with this kind of enterprise data? That way any > existing > ad-hoc reporting tools that work with your RDBMS > could be used. > I have a bunch of data that doesn't map well with RDBMS's, etc... text files, html files, even graphics files... these could all easily map to a few discrete types of objects (ZClasses) with certain properties for easy retrieval and searching. I would like a nice web interface (which Zope should handle nicely) for "remote" access to the application. At other times, my requirement for a GUI is going to surpass what can be done with a HTML interface (at least for now)... I want to access the same data and data store (via Zope???) from my own python/GTK or whatever GUI... can this be done? > The real point of supporting an abstract data > storage in Z2 is to > let folks use a backing store that they feel > comfortable with (as > far as stability support, scalability, availability, > etc.), I can see this... right now, as long as its fairly reliable, the standard object store would be fine... if that doesn't play out, then I could use one of the alternatives in the future, but I'm not after the RDBMS part of it... I just want an object store, along with the versioning, etc. that Zope seems to give me. So, any comments? Am I just crazy? Am I looking at the wrong tool, or using it the wrong way? Thanks for any input people have! Bruce === -- Bruce C. Dillahunty Peachbush Enterprises _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Large Portal requirements (was: Other web servers?)
by Jimmie Houchin 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

At 01:22 PM 6/14/99 -0400, Michel Pelletier wrote: [snip] >> #2: Do I understand correctly that **every** page is built and served >> dynamically? Is there a performance issue here, since static >> html serve the fastest? Much of our content will be static pages, but we need >> ease-of-use for publishing by non-web persons. > >Every page is served 'dynamicly' in that it is pulled from the object >database. However, pages do not need to be rendered if they do not >contain any DTML scripting. When a document is added, the DTML is >compiled for speed, it is not parsed and compiled on every access. > >Zope is much faster than traditional CGI solutions for "dynamicly" >generating content, since the Zope process is running all the time, >there is no fork and exec'ing of an interpreter overhead. > >Also, I have no benchmarks on traditional file serving vs. serving from >the object database, I would venture a wager however that you will not >notice it even under heavy loads. Zope 1.x has been proven to do well >over a million hits a day on modest hardware, and Zope 2.0 will be able >to perform much faster and smoother than that. Given also that it is >written in Python and not (god forbid) Java means that it is very >cross-platform and can run on every platform that python can run on and >that you can compile C python extensions onto. Howabout for database intensive situations like one encounters in some of the larger sites like Altavista, Goto, Yahoo, Amazon, etc. Here are very, very large databases, probably very large indexes, multi-millions of objects, multi-multi-gigabytes to search, index. My concern is because Python does not scale with multiple processor machines, this limits ones ability to throw hardware at the situation since you are limited to the fastest single processor. Do I misunderstand anything. Would Zope be appropriate for these situations? How well would Zope handle it? For example in an article I read concerning the delay in Intel bringing out it's chipset for 8way Pentium III servers. Barnes and Noble was talking about beta-testing an 8way server to speed up their searches. Now I understand that different development models yield different results and I don't know how Barnes and Noble's website is built. I do know that B&N has a very large database with multi-millions of objects with many, many gigs of data. Would Zope be appropriate? I know that my website will have similar and greater requirements concerning database size and searching. Hopefully hits/traffics also will be high. Zope and Python are my first choice. Thanks for any help. Jimmie Houchin [snip]

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RE: [Zope] Replicating Zope
by Alexander Staubo 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

Since nobody has answered this: According to Paul Everitt, some sort of replication support -- he called it communication between Zope servers -- is planned, but won't happen for a few months yet. Otoh, if support for arbitrary DAs as storage managers for ZODB3 arrives before that time, you can probably use the replication support in your RDBMS (eg., MSSQL). -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "`This must be Thursday,' said Arthur to himself, sinking low over his beer, `I never could get the hang of Thursdays.'" --Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ >-----Original Message----- >From: zope-admin(a)zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On >Behalf Of Petru >Paler >Sent: 14. juni 1999 19:04 >To: zope(a)zope.org >Subject: [Zope] Replicating Zope > > > Is it possible to have to separate Zopes (running on >different servers) >and make them sincronize their object databases ? > >-Petru > >_______________________________________________ >Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org >http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > >(For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, >zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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Re: [Zope] Zope 2.0.0a1 on DHCP?
by Michael Bernstein 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

Bill Anderson wrote: > > Michael Bernstein wrote: > > > > I have successfully installed and compiled Zope 2.0.0a1 on my home > > machine, but cannot seem to get it to start. I believe that the reason > > is that it's connection to the net is a cable-modem, and it's using > > DHCP. > > > > Has anyone else encountered this? I've succesfully installed Zope 2.0 on > > another machine with a static IP address at work. > > > > BTW, I am not so concerned about making this installation externally > > accessible (though it would be nice), but mainly want to do development > > at home as well. > > > > What port are you trying to use? If ==80, you have two issues: you would > need to be root, and youe would have to turn off apache (on by default > in rehdat installs). I use it with a dhcp address just fine (even on my > production servers). > Actually there was a port 80 bug, as described in this post to another thread: > >Ok, I realize I am probably exposing myself as a Linux newbie, but Zope > >will not start up on port 80. I realize this is because of some sort of > >security measure, as Zope is running as the user nobody, and Linux does > >not give anyone other than root the ability to assign ports lower than > >1024. > > > >How do I get around this? I need to access this system through a > >firewall without letting any more ports through. > > This is a bug now fixed in the CVS. The startup script first switches to > user nobody, and then tries to bind to port 80, a privileged port. The > latest version in the CVS reverses this. But the problem I described here turned out to be my own fault, as I had a hostname conflict, which was causing socket.gethostbyname to barf. Cheers, Michael Bernstein.

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RE: [Zope] Other web servers?
by Alexander Staubo 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

A small note: With my ISAPI extension for Zope you can also use any ISAPI-compliant web server. This includes IIS and Zeus, others? NES supports NSAPI, which is similar but different. :-) Eventually maybe somebody could write an NSAPI module to interfaces with Zope/PCGI. -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "`This must be Thursday,' said Arthur to himself, sinking low over his beer, `I never could get the hang of Thursdays.'" --Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ >-----Original Message----- >From: rrmorgan(a)dhcp-va6-0-47-173.winstar.com >[mailto:rrmorgan@dhcp-va6-0-47-173.winstar.com]On Behalf Of Richard R. >Morgan >Sent: 14. juni 1999 18:27 >To: zope(a)zope.org >Subject: [Zope] Other web servers? > > >Hi all- > >We are attempting to evaluate Zope and and similar products for our >intranet. I have been digging through the zope website and can't find >the answer to these.... > >#1: Does Zope work with any other webservers, beyond apache and the >included python server? > Like Netscape Enterprise Server? > > We need a solution that works with NES. > >#2: Do I understand correctly that **every** page is built and served >dynamically? Is there a performance issue here, since static >html serve >the fastest? Much of our content will be static pages, but we need >ease-of-use for publishing by non-web persons. > > > >Thanks, >Richard >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Richard R. Morgan | richard(a)northerncrown.com >Intranet Systems Engineer | http://www.tux.org/~rmorgan >Winstar Communications, Inc. | http://www.winstar.com >NOVALUG Webmaster | http://novalug.tux.org >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >"This grips me more than some muddy old river or a reclining Buddha" > >_______________________________________________ >Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org >http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > >(For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, >zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Other web servers?
by Rob Page 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

> #1: Does Zope work with any other webservers, beyond apache and the > included python server? > Like Netscape Enterprise Server? > > We need a solution that works with NES. I'll chime in on Mike's reply... Zope works fine with NES 2.x (yes, we've got customers with it!), NES 3.5x and 3.6x. <SNIP> --Rob

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RE: [Zope] Other web servers?
by Michel Pelletier 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard R. Morgan [mailto:richard@northerncrown.com] > Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 12:09 PM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Other web servers? > > > Hi all- > > We are attempting to evaluate Zope and and similar products for our > intranet. I have been digging through the zope website and can't find > the answer to these.... > > #1: Does Zope work with any other webservers, beyond apache and the > included python server? > Like Netscape Enterprise Server? > > We need a solution that works with NES. Zope works with any webserver that 1) does CGI, and 2) passes the HTTP_AUTHORIZATION header to the CGI script. Niether NES or Apache do this without modification, Apache must use a rewrite rule, or the new mod_pcgi module, and NES must use an NSAPI plugin which is unsuported. The closed source nature of NES is very limiting. We do have customers who use the plugin, however. > > #2: Do I understand correctly that **every** page is built and served > dynamically? Is there a performance issue here, since static > html serve > the fastest? Much of our content will be static pages, but we need > ease-of-use for publishing by non-web persons. Every page is served 'dynamicly' in that it is pulled from the object database. However, pages do not need to be rendered if they do not contain any DTML scripting. When a document is added, the DTML is compiled for speed, it is not parsed and compiled on every access. Zope is much faster than traditional CGI solutions for "dynamicly" generating content, since the Zope process is running all the time, there is no fork and exec'ing of an interpreter overhead. Also, I have no benchmarks on traditional file serving vs. serving from the object database, I would venture a wager however that you will not notice it even under heavy loads. Zope 1.x has been proven to do well over a million hits a day on modest hardware, and Zope 2.0 will be able to perform much faster and smoother than that. Given also that it is written in Python and not (god forbid) Java means that it is very cross-platform and can run on every platform that python can run on and that you can compile C python extensions onto. Also, Zope works well in conjunction with a classic file based web server. For intense raw gotta get out as fast as posible static web page serving, you can very easily integrate Zope with a lightning fast server, like Zeus or a highly tuned Apache. BTW, does NOVALUG stand for Northern Virginia Linux Users Group? -Michel > > > > Thanks, > Richard > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Richard R. Morgan | richard(a)northerncrown.com > Intranet Systems Engineer | http://www.tux.org/~rmorgan > Winstar Communications, Inc. | http://www.winstar.com > NOVALUG Webmaster | http://novalug.tux.org > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > "This grips me more than some muddy old river or a reclining Buddha" > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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Value of id in sub-sub-DTML-Methods
by Stefan Bund 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

I have the following setup: Folder at /Zope/DB: standard_list DTML Method list_bottom_left DTML Method . . . Folder at /Zope/DB/Address: index_html DTML Document list Z SQL Method list_top_center DTML Method . . . Those objects have the following dependencies: o standard_list defines the standard layout for the representation of a (batched) list of SQL results. list, list_bottom_left and list_top_center are some of the sub-documents referenced by standard_list. o /Zope/DB/Address/index_html references standard_list to display the result of /Zope/DB/Address/list. So far so good. When selecting the URL /Zope/DB/Address (or /Zope/DB/Address/index_html), the value of the id DTML-Variable behaves very strange (in my opinion): o within the index_html Document it is 'index_html'. Good. o Within standard_list it is 'index_html'. Also good. o Within list_bottom_left and list_top_center it is 'Address'. What???? How do I find the name of the displayed page? I always thought id should be the value? By the way (I almost forgot), I'm using Zope 1.10.2 Is this a (known) Bug or have I understood something completely wrong? Stefan.

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Replicating Zope
by Petru Paler 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

Is it possible to have to separate Zopes (running on different servers) and make them sincronize their object databases ? -Petru

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Other web servers?
by Richard R. Morgan 14 Jun '99

14 Jun '99

Hi all- We are attempting to evaluate Zope and and similar products for our intranet. I have been digging through the zope website and can't find the answer to these.... #1: Does Zope work with any other webservers, beyond apache and the included python server? Like Netscape Enterprise Server? We need a solution that works with NES. #2: Do I understand correctly that **every** page is built and served dynamically? Is there a performance issue here, since static html serve the fastest? Much of our content will be static pages, but we need ease-of-use for publishing by non-web persons. Thanks, Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard R. Morgan | richard(a)northerncrown.com Intranet Systems Engineer | http://www.tux.org/~rmorgan Winstar Communications, Inc. | http://www.winstar.com NOVALUG Webmaster | http://novalug.tux.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- "This grips me more than some muddy old river or a reclining Buddha"

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