May 2001 - Zope - Zope lists

Re: [Zope] Wiki vs Mailing List
by Karl Anderson 24 May '01

24 May '01

Oleg Broytmann <phd(a)phd.fep.ru> writes: > On 23 May 2001, Karl Anderson wrote: > > I use NetMind's URL-Minder to tell me when the wikis I need to be on > > Will NetMind send me false alarm when the design (not content) of the > page changed? For example, if time stamped on the page - will NetMind send > me notifications? Yes, unless you use NetMind's tags that tell it what to ignore. Lots of fancy design changes seems pretty pointless for a wiki, though. -- Karl Anderson karl(a)digicool.com

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Re: [Zope] Using Zope for Document Collaboration
by Mark Langkau 24 May '01

24 May '01

Thanks Rich! I think there will be two parts to this: - Pulling text out of MS-Word into Zope, and later back into Word - Allowing multiple editors/authors to work on that extracted text in Zope, perhaps simultaneoulsy I started looking at wvWare yesterday for the conversions. It compiles and works, but I haven't had much time to play with it yet. I was wondering about XML too. I just started working with Wiki's today, so I haven't read all of the docs yet. Do I need to use structured text in a wiki page, or can I paste text with html tags in there too? If so, I wouldn't have to convert to stx and could save a step. I started looking at structured text after watching "The Zope Book" come together over several months, and I'd like to incorporate that model into our own documentation process. So, I'm not looking to "avoid" using stx - we will be using it in other areas. I suspect that parts of this have been done by "someone" before ;-) If not, maybe this will be a good excuse for me to learn about making Zope products. Cheers, Mark Rich Pinder wrote: > Great application. > I'm also very interested in whichever products can do the parsing of the > word file. > I think i saw one (dont recall it now) on the zope announcements in the last > day or so that converted the .doc into an .html document. > but putting it back into word... havent seen that. > > I'd like to be able to actually 'parse' the header info of the word > document - there is bunches of info a user can put in a document (or gets > there automatically) - user name/ date/ keywords/ title/ etc.... and what > i'd love to see is a way to not only convert it to html, but also into > either the zope database or maybe into an XML document for saving. > > i'll keep my eyes and ears peeled > > thanks > rich pinder > usc school of medicine > > Mark Langkau wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Forgive me if this isn't the correct list for this question. I need some > > design help - and suggestions of tools to use would be great. I'll take > > further discussions of "design" issues off line, and stick to specific > > Zope/tool questions here. > > > > Quick Summary: > > > > I need to take an incoming MS-Word file and break it up into sections, > > and post them on our Zope intranet for various employees to edit and > > contribute to. When completed, the sections need to be rolled back up > > into a single file that can be converted back to MS-Word. Users will not > > have access to the Zope Management Interface. > >

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Prerequisites for a desktop IDE, or any desktop app w/ Zope
by sean.upton＠uniontrib.com 24 May '01

24 May '01

The recent IDE thread has sort of got me thinking about my ideal vision of what Zope could do for and be to developers in the future, so perhaps my quirky visions here seem a bit ambitious, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt (or a Tablespoon if you prefer)... So perhaps this message's subject might be best written as: Sean's Crazy Zope Wishlist... here are some random thoughts re: IDE for Zope... this message is long, so here is a summary: 1. create generalized toolkit/class library for desktop access to Zope; use wxPython... Work should be used for basis for IDE and a whole new generation of cross-platform desktop applications using Zope as a middleware core, expanding what Zope is used for, and the market opportunities associated with it for developers and vendors... 2. IDE should have ability to checkin/out stuff from server Products dir via FTP, as well as ODB; code should be synced from IDE/workstation to CVS, and also to Zope server for testing snapshots. 3. IDE should allow for unit testing of python classes using local python installation, and also facilitate debugging using python on server after a sync of code. 4. I'm not sure I would pay for an IDE versus using traditional tools, but I WOULD PAY FOR CASE TOOL INTEGRATION. I want forward/reverse engineering from UML; this would require the ability to have the CASE tool plugin cooperate with changes/evolution in Zope and any "standard" IDE, which means there is a sale-plus-subscription business model for this (for DC or another vendor to sell to ISVs?). Do this, and watch to "Enterprise Java" folks be converted - they really want to code in python, they just don't know it yet. ;) Anyways, if you aren't already bored to tears, read on... ------ Zope, via XML-RPC, could be a very good platform for creating an extensible toolkit for desktop access to Zope, wrapping XML-RPC calls to Zope machinery to do certain tasks. Such an abstract toolkit might provide a decent foundation for an IDE, but would also serve the purpose of allowing folks to write "desktop" (really: client/server) programs that interface with the Zope/ODB rather transparently by using the some prebuilt toolkit classes and basic-auth-wrapped python XML-RPC library. I could imagine having prebuilt library functions for Zope access (a desktop application that has a concept of a user-login and session, a URL, etc), admin (pack db, restart, backup/export object hierarchies to a local file), development (ftp checkin/checkout of code from Products directory on server, source/property editing of TTW objects), and general use (bound data controls - widgets like text boxes that are bound to a particular class definition, and represent members of instances of those classes, for example a widget has an associated get and set method within a class that it gets its text from and sets upon changes). Perhaps I'm dreaming here, but I really want to extend what I am doing in Zope in the future into cross-platform desktop development efforts. The rationale for desktop apps to be built with Zope is exists because: 1 - Data Entry: TTW editing is not always ideal; if I was building a content-system, for example, like a newspaper library system, Zope is an ideal platform for an asset-management system/content repository. But that task also involves a lot of editing, and the librarian will want to have hot-keys to modify content and navigate an entry-screen, it would make sense to make this a desktop app, as that kind of flexibility is not afforded by a browser and html forms. 2 - Current Desktop Client/Server apps are stale: Isn't the idea of ODB integration with desktop apps more exciting than standard 2-tier RDB apps? Wouldn't middleware based on lightweight, commodity technologies (http, xml-rpc, open source server software) like Zope make sense for the new "web services" paradigm? 3 - Zope has potential as an enterprise data-center mainstay, not just as a web-only application. This expands the market for Zope and vendors working with Zope, as well as expands the Zope community. 4 - Commodity internet technologies, especially with open-source cores, provide what might just be the core for the next generation of enterprise applications (both web-based and desktop c/s), especially in heterogeneous content environments (like publishing/media companies using something like this for the database core for print and online production systems). 5 - There is a market justification for vendors to sell more integration services to 2 market vectors (enterprise and web development), in both content-management and other verticals for which Zope might excel as a good development platform for a back end. In the newspaper editorial and asset-management systems business (I used to work for a vendor in this industry), for example, there is a great deal of talk about convergence and formatting-neutral content storage databases at the center of web and desktop apps; a lot of app & services sales within these markets are 6 to 7 figure sales to media companies, so there is opportunity, not in just this industry, but other content-heavy industries (medical, legal, etc) as well - for the same types of "integrated" solutions with a single commidity-web-based core, with desktop and web apps surrounding it. I'm currently doing a bit of playing around with wxPython, which reminds me a lot of my days programming with the Borland OWL class libraries, so I might be partial to such a solution using wxPython instead of tkinter (tcl interpreter - blech! motif-style widgets - yuck!). An IDE built with a decent (modern) widget set / UI class library, with extended toolkit functions, like data-bound controls, might make for an interesting user-extensible means of creating custom-tweaked IDEs, not to mention other desktop software that accesses Zope... I guess what I am saying is that we might as well have a toolkit for building desktop apps and kill two birds with one stone here if there ends up being any sort of IDE project. I also think that choosing to use a modern cross-platform desktop class library like wxWindows with wxPython might be a better choice than mozilla/XPCOM or tkinter... In addition to remote object/method calls, ability to sync local code done in the IDE with both a CVS server (whenever), and with the Zope server (on production/snapshot releases) via FTP would be good. The IDE should allow unit-testing and debugging using a python shell and a local python. The IDE should also automate the ability to telnet to the Zope server to do integration testing and verification using the python on the Zope server. I do this now with Idle on the Zope server via a remote X-Session (not entirely graceful, but it works). In addition to an IDE, I want to be able to have some good guidelines and documentation for standardized UML in Zope, so that when I share designs with colleagues, I don't have to use a ridiculous amount of my own flavor of stereotypes, just because I don't know any better. Once I have that, I want CASE->CODE->CASE tools with an existing tool (even if it is a Visio extension hacked with VBscript), but perhaps I am pushing my luck there. I just think that provided the ability to use standard editing tools, I would feel good to have the ability to do forward/reverse engineering from UML models. Such a tool might get some Java developers to jump ship. I might not pay for an IDE, but I WOULD PAY $$$ for a plugin that does forward/reverse engineering with an existing CASE tools (ObjectDomain, Rational Rose, Visio2k, etc). These are high-end tools that would likely only be used by a smaller group of folks than Zope's general audience, which, I assume makes this more ideal for a standard commercial software paradigm. Such a product would need to be able to change with changes/evolution in Zope, which means that a buy-once, buy a support contract for free updates would be a good model for anyone creating such a tool. Also, you keep the barrier to entry low for development in open-source projects built on Zope because you can always have folks without these tools submit patches, participate in development, and view a PDF or JPG of the UML diagrams if they so please... Sean ========================= Sean Upton Senior Programmer/Analyst SignOnSanDiego.com The San Diego Union-Tribune 619.718.5241 sean.upton(a)uniontrib.com =========================

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Re: [Zope] Zope and Dreamweaver WebDAV
by dave＠kovach.com 24 May '01

24 May '01

What I meant was can you add an IMAGE object or a special product object like from say ACTIVEIMAGES...? You would have to go back to the ZMI to add that object... Though, I am talking out my butt cause I have just been using DW to edit existing dtml objects. DK On Thu, 24 May 2001, "Jason Cunliffe" wrote: > > > Thing is - when using it - you still need to use the ZMI to add and > maintain objects correct? > > Not sure what you mean... ?? > > You can create fresh DTML from within Dreamweaver. > > Dreamweavers's main paradigm is to maintain a local folder tree with HTML+ > media content usind the 'Sites' Manager interface. This is then synchronized > up/down with the remote server. Over FTP which is its default, one is using > Zope's own FTP access to the ZODB. AS far as I know you can put and get > anything this way. > > Whether or not Dreamweaver knows how to display or edit those objects is > another matter. Dreamweaver does allow one to assign external views and > editors. This is very useful for code as well as garphics/sound etc. This is > why folowing 'conventional' 3/4 letter suffix naming habits in Zope will be > well-rewarded when using Dreamweaver. The paradigm is of course a little > broken since Dreamweaver is expecting flat file access. > > On the Zope side I find it a real advantage to use 'normal' file names as > created by other applications, such as index.html, myfile.swf, etc One > advantage is that upload and refressh from local to remote is direct and > fast. The only gotcha is Zope's "workflow-challenged" recommendation to > avoid object names with dot.names. There are ugly but effective workarounds, > and this is a major zope FAQ. > > IMHO What zope needs is really clean way to use objects which have > dot.sufixes names > > Any idea about this? > > It would be a very pragmatic boost to Zpoe workflow, expecially when graphic > designers and non-Zopisti are involved. A common Content Management Workflow > scenario is people working on XYZ local system using ABC applications, > neednig to upload/update all kinds of familiar documents .XLS, .DOC, .JPG, > .PDF., etc > > There are better and better tools now for sharing media, external files and > images, loading, parsing and cataloguing them. > ExtFile/ExtImage http://www.zope.org/Members/MacGregor/ExtFile > LocalFS http://www.zope.org/Members/jfarr/Products/LocalFS/ > ExtDocument http://www.zope.org/Members/tmclaugh/ExtDocument_news > ParsedXML http://www.zope.org/Members/karl/ParsedXML/1.0 > ZShell [many features, especially fabulous 'wget' command] > http://cortex.unice.fr/~jerome/zshell/ > > But 'Core' Zope is falling a behind in recognition of handling the objects > all the useful [essential]products enable > > For example, I use Flash5 a lot. This means there are 3 files to maintain: > source.fla [authoring], source.swf[playback over web] and > source.html[object/embed htnml wrapper code] Since any flash work involves > many versions and revisions, I need to upload source.html once, source.fla > at the end of each 'session' and for source.swf every change you want to use > on the ZopeSite. FLash5 'publish' command generates the wrapper HTML which I > then upload into an identically named DTML Method. Except for changes of the > Flash player or some special need, I forget about this one. The .FLA I > upload so I have a server-side backup which I can share with other artists. > The .SWF is uploaded as Zope 'File' object and/or using the external > products. Same applies for images. > > The 'Image' upload and smoe others, have one very nice default 'workflow]' > feature. If you don't create an Id or Title they will use the existing name > for Id and the local upload filepath for Title. I tend to use verbose names > for versions of graphics while I am working on them, but prefer very short > simple ones for Zope. Automatically using Title for my local filepath in > Zope means I can easily locate the precise file later. This sort of > behaviour needs to be made deeper and wider across Zope. It would also boost > the use of tools like Dreamweaver. The new hot ZopeIDE now being discussed > will want to resolve these issues also. > > example: > > An image I am working on may be called "sitelogo_dark_up_005.jpg" > and stored in e:\projects\Zsites\NiceClient\designcomps\logos > In Zope I might want to refer to the object as "logo_up" or "logo_up.jpg" > This is true for the various stages - while presentation to client is being > prepared, after it is 'approved', while the site is going up and being > tweaked. As soon as one works with a lot of media or other file-based > content, have to implement design changes, and more people are involved, the > problem multiplies. Keeping workflow metadata within the Zope object > prooperties is thus a really high priority. ZShell is has good interactive > tools to help manage this situation. > Dreamweaver can help one track all of this various feature. CSS style sheets > are another category. And Zope is capable but not yet oriented to this. > > I find keeping a local and remote set for Zope is both good and bad. Good > because, one has backup and work locally. Bad because there is can be > quickly confusing. There is not a natural structural synchronization between > Zope and the local file system. If you move things around in Zope you must > be sure to reflect those changes in Dreamweaver's local mapping of files and > objects, and vice versa. Dreamweaver seems to assume one will not move parts > of the site tree around. > > comments/tips welcome > > ./Jason

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Re: AW: [Zope-Annce] Formulator 0.9.1 released
by Nicola Larosa 24 May '01

24 May '01

> I get following error when I testing a field and don't enter the right > value. > > Error Type: TypeError > Error Value: not enough arguments; expected 3, got 2 It's the same error I had before unloading ZDebug. Do you have it loaded? -- Nicola Larosa - nico(a)tekNico.net

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AW: [Zope-Annce] Formulator 0.9.1 released
by Damir Bartakovic 24 May '01

24 May '01

Did anybody tried to get Formulator to work? I get following error when I testing a field and don't enter the right value. Error Type: TypeError Error Value: not enough arguments; expected 3, got 2 Traceback (innermost last): File /usr/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 223, in publish_module File /usr/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 187, in publish File /usr/zope/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: email_f) File /usr/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 171, in publish File /usr/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160, in mapply (Object: fieldTest) File /usr/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 112, in call_object (Object: fieldTest) File /usr/zope/lib/python/Shared/DC/Scripts/Bindings.py, line 324, in __call__ (Object: fieldTest) File /usr/zope/lib/python/Shared/DC/Scripts/Bindings.py, line 354, in _bindAndExec (Object: fieldTest) File /usr/zope/lib/python/App/special_dtml.py, line 236, in _exec (Object: fieldTest) File /usr/zope/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_Try.py, line 212, in render File /usr/zope/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_Try.py, line 221, in render_try_except File /usr/zope/lib/python/Products/ZDebug/DTMLDebug.py, line 259, in debug_render_blocks File /usr/zope/lib/python/Products/ZDebug/DTMLDebug.py, line 239, in debugException File /usr/zope/lib/python/Products/ZDebug/DTMLDebug.py, line 184, in debugWithNamespace TypeError: (see above) If I enter a proper value, everything is alright! Any hints? cheers Damir

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Using Zope for Document Collaboration
by Mark Langkau 24 May '01

24 May '01

Hi, Forgive me if this isn't the correct list for this question. I need some design help - and suggestions of tools to use would be great. I'll take further discussions of "design" issues off line, and stick to specific Zope/tool questions here. Quick Summary: I need to take an incoming MS-Word file and break it up into sections, and post them on our Zope intranet for various employees to edit and contribute to. When completed, the sections need to be rolled back up into a single file that can be converted back to MS-Word. Users will not have access to the Zope Management Interface. Details: We have several people in multiple locations that need to edit different parts of the same document - anytime - online. My first thought is ZWiki, but I'm not sure if other options (if any) are better. (I'm a wiki newbie). We get several Request For Proposal (RFP) docs that require several departments to contribute information and answer questions. I'd like to convert the client's original file (MS-Word) into something that Zope can publish and allow edits. The users in our departments will not have access to the Zope Management Interface, and the goal is to use just a browser to call up an RFP and answer questions in sections pertaining to their own department. Anyone working on the RFP can see the entire document (no dept. restrictions). The final format back to the client is usually very specific, and again in MS-Word format, so I'm not looking to produce a "final" presentation document directly from the Zope site. However, we will need to "roll-up" all of the parts of the RFP back into a single doc for manual reformatting as required by the client. If I save the Word doc into html format, can I convert that to Structured Text and paste that into Wiki pages? Does anyone have a script that could automate this - breaking sections (based on html heading tags perhaps) into separate wiki pages? (Or even just to convert html to stx?) I'm thinking that breaking the RFP up into separate pages may minimize the chance for 2 people to save changes to the same page at the same time - or lock one page and not save all day, etc. (It'll still happen, but perhaps not as often ;-) Is there an easier way to do this? Thanks, Mark

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Re: [Zope] Zope and Dreamweaver WebDAV
by dave＠kovach.com 24 May '01

24 May '01

I too use Dreamweaver as an editor (its gotten alot better really!) and want to try and assist making it a great frontend to Zope. Though, as Jason noted - it is a total memory hog. But, lots of proven features. Thing is - when using it - you still need to use the ZMI to add and maintain objects correct? What about an ext. to be able to add objects from Dreamweaver? Thoughts... David On Thu, 24 May 2001, "Jason Cunliffe" wrote: > > David > > I have been using Dreamweaver FTP and Zope. Yes, The big problem is the lack > of suffix. This means you can not click files in the Dreamweaver Site > manager to load. But you _can_ drag Zope items onto the main Dreamweaver > window! This works in version 3 and 4. So it's pretty easy to change Zope > form styles or edit anything this way. > > Using Dreamweaver with Zope makes one reconsider Zope object naming schemes. > If one is more systematic in zope adn/or use siffixes, it is much easier to > make Dreamweaver more responsive. However this does not apply to all the > builtin Zope code. It is a shame there is not a wildcard filename featre in > Dreamweaver which would allow special recognition within the Site Manager, > based on any input. For those whoh deevlop Dreamweaver Extensions, this is > probably not that complicated even. > > I think nobody has really needed to - until Zope. And since so few Zopisti > are graphic design inclined, and since Zope workflow is still a raw and > undeveloped topic, this reamins sadly negelected. Stronger Dreamweaver Zope > features would make Zope a much easier 'sell' to potentital clients their > CTOs. Also a good way to make a wider audience aware of Zope. > > I did not know about the WebDav extension. Thanks - I will try it. > Mostly I find WebDav rather slow. Maybe just my setup here [Win98se 500Mhz > 192Mb]. > > Dreamweaver is a memory hog. But Version 4 is nice with Zope because of > various options for rendering pages, view HTML + source etc.. If only it > were really linked to Zope and could go 'fetch' DTML and Zope objects in a > timely manner. Still there is a lott of work one can do. > > There is a Zope <dtml> tag extension for Dreamweaver. Works with 3 & 4. > Places a little DTML-START adn DTML-STOP gifs inline which you can access. > Somewhat useful dependnig on your style of use in Dreamweaver. > http://www.zope.org/Members/johanc/Dreamweaver3 > > Please let me know if you make progress with this > > hth > ./Jason > ___________________________________________________________ > Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Legg" <d.legg(a)ncl.ac.uk> > To: "Zope List" <zope(a)zope.org> > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:04 AM > Subject: [Zope] Zope and Dreamweaver WebDAV > > > > Hi, > > > > I can access a Zope site through Dreamweaver WebDAV, but opening Zope > > documents presents a problem as they do not have a conventional file > > extension - .html, .js etc. I can vaguely remember a work around for this, > > but I had no use for it at the time. Anybody using Dreamweaver WebDAV and > > Zope at the moment have any ideas and any further tips? I have the > > Dreamweaver WebDAV patch downloaded from the Macromedia website. > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > David Legg > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

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How to get raw upload data from POST?
by Brad Clements 24 May '01

24 May '01

I'm working to upload ADO recordsets in XML format. I use the XMLHTTP object to POST raw <?xml> text as the "body" of the post. Content-Type isn't set in the POST request. I'm trying to figure out how to read() the body of the post. Seems the FieldStorage is doing something I can't figure out. REQUEST.read() doesn't work REQUEST.stdin.read() doesn't work (from an external method) REQUEST._file is None I don't want to fake up a form post.. How do I get at the body of the post through REQUEST? Brad Clements, bkc(a)murkworks.com (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements

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24 May '01

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