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Re: [Zope] A new list needed (and/or a new feature of documentation)?
by Oliver Bleutgen 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Robert Rottermann wrote: >> This I find is a VERY!!! good proposal. >> >> How would I have loved to have such a thing!! >> (and still do) > The Developers Guide at zope.org has BackTalk features like this now; if > you want to see an example. Cool! Now we all just have to get the word out, to fill this with live. I didn't know this existed, apparently it isn't mentioned anywhere else. cheers, oliver

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RE: [Zope] A new list needed (and/or a new feature of documentation)?
by Oliver Bleutgen 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

> Being a non-so-developer type myself and not being too good with python > yet, I had said the same thing myself. But truth is, its all there in > some place or another. Finding it is the difficult part because the > really technical information lies in documents with slightly ambiguous > names. Who would thing that AppendixB.dtml was going to teach me how to > resize an image using <dtml-var "ImageObject.tag(width=yadda)">? > But something I think may be nice, but perhaps is already here. Is there > a Code Collector that we can read/submit submissions of coding (dtml and > python)? I stumbled upon a site somewhere that had something like it and > then I lost the link. However, it only had 3 entries at the time. There is one at zdp.zope.org (code snippets). I know I repeat a mail I did sometime before, but zdp doesn't work. It doesn't work because we split resources and make it too hard for people to contribute. I want to propose another idea, which is IMO well-tested and works good. Php.net has it and postgresql.org too. Php.net calls it annotated documentation. It gives users the ability to post remarks to chapters of the documentation, for adding errata, catches, and code snippets. I don't know why nobody seems to think this is worthy, IMO it would help to build a more or less _single_ source of information esp. for "newbies" (but not only). How often do we read "I tried xyz from chapterNN of blabla-documentation and it doesn't work", and the answer is "You got it nearly right but you also have to do ZvoodooStuff". Take for instance http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.file-upload.php There are many posts describing what they tried, what didn't work, and what they did to remedy the problem - exactly what is IMO needed for zope. This is the place where (most) beginners (and others) will look first - attached at the relevant chapter of the documentation. This is the place where people can easily contribute after solving their problem, after all they went there before in search for help. And finally, it's the place where authors of the docs have a central repository for feedback, to see what they might add in the next rev of the documentation. > For those of us that struggle at first with Zope syntax and language, > code snippets are the very best thing to learn from. Its frustrating to > know how something is done, but have to ask a question on the list that > verifies you missed something simple because the answer was as stupid as > the question, once its worked out. Btw. sometimes I have problems with not zope-, but browser-/http- specific questions. A search on google often yields a link to phps annotated docs, and all I have to do is to translate that solution into zope. Why can't we have something like that? I think the building blocks are there already. cheers, oliver

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RE: [Zope] One big Zope or many small Zopes? Or perhaps a ZEO?
by sean.upton＠uniontrib.com 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

We use ZEO + Squid, with plenty of fast hardware and segmented VLANs for performance and security. We proxy directly from Squid to ZServer, use squid for load-balancing, and use a squid redirector for virtual host support. Squid does indeed help out a ton... Caching proxies have the nice benefit of allowing you to keep images in Zope, but have the speed of serving them from in-memory caches (for in-transit and frequently-used images). We currently are running up to 150,000 page views / day through this (classifieds site), and eventually will have up to 1 million+ page views (well, on peak days) per day as we move more portions of our site onto this setup away from primarily static publishing, and we feel pretty confident with the combo, especially with what you might call "semi-dynamic" content, like published items that get requested many times, which works well for newspaper web site content, like classifieds ads, editorial, and vertical advertising content like MLS listings. We are likely to move a lot of stuff onto Zope gradually over the next year, and we plan on having a lot of traffic, and a need to deal with it. Here's a simplified breakdown of what we are doing: 3 cluster tiers, between each a different VLAN ============================================== Caching Proxy ===================== [cache1]::::[cache2] | \ ZEO Client / Apache v \ ===================== [node1]<-x->[node2] | ___/ ZSS/NFS/MySQL Cluster v / ===================== [storage]::::[hot_backup_storage] For reliability, each node in each of these three tiers uses clustering software (Linux-HA/heartbeat, which is really simple, free, and just does IP takeover when it doesn't see the heartbeat of its peer). We are likely to add ZEO client nodes as our traffic and application needs grow. If you wanted to get a lot of the same benefits with much less hardware, you could set up a 2-box arrangement: 1 - Get a fast dual-CPU box, with internal hardware RAID, and 1GB+ RAM, running ZEO/ZSS and 2 ZEO client processes, as well as your relational database software. You use ZEO so your Zope processes can take advantage of multiple processors. 2 - Get another similar box, and run Squid on it, with a bunch of redirector processes (which are CPU intensive, justifying the investment in a dual CPU box). In order to load-balance the 2 Zopes running on different TCP ports on server 1, you would have to use multiple IP addresses on your interface on server 1 (above). This wouldn't reduce single-points of failure, but would be quite nice from a performance standpoint, and really doesn't involve a substantial hardware investment. This would look like: [squid] Running Squid, load-balancing 2 ZEO client | | processes v v [node] For example, Serving Zope at 10.1.1.1:8080 and 10.1.1.2:8080 This would require you to bind Z2.py to an interface This box would also run your Relational Databases, and the ZSS. Servers we are looking into for next year that fit this kind of description are, for example, Appro 1124, a 1 rack unit box, with Dual 1.5GHz Athlon CPUs, which is a nice box designed around the Tyan Thunder K7 mainboard, and this is likely the fasted dual-CPU x86 box you can buy, and it is reasonably priced, given it was built with somewhat commodity standard components (though it looks to handle heat well, from reviews I have read of this). Anyway, this is just my take on the best way to address this; others may feel differently, but I feel this is an excellent strategy for an online newspaper site, or another site that "publishes" content accessed in similar ways by many users. Sean ========================= Sean Upton Senior Programmer/Analyst SignOnSanDiego.com The San Diego Union-Tribune 619.718.5241 sean.upton(a)uniontrib.com ========================= -----Original Message----- From: Kirk Strauser [mailto:kirk@strauser.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:44 AM To: zope(a)zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] One big Zope or many small Zopes? Or perhaps a ZEO? At 2001-10-19T16:22:27Z, Chris Muldrow <muldrow(a)mac.com> writes: > Also, we're running at traffic somewhere around 60,000-80,000 page views a > day--not huge traffic, but more than we had a year ago, certainly. At what > traffic point have most folks noticed a need for more server power? Is it > 100,000 page views? More? Less? > > We are also serving ads to the Zopes from a different Windows 2000 server > running Apache and using a PERL process to serve the ads at a rate of > between 400,000 and 700,000 ads per day. Note: I'm a Zope newbie, as anyone reading my last week's worth of postings can tell, but I'm not completely inexperienced at network design. I would strongly recommend the use of a proxy/cache in front of your servers. It sounds as if much of your content is pseudo-static. That is, although it may change, it's likely to do so slowly. Caching servers can make a vast difference in performance in setups like this. For example, suppose that users often go to: http://mynewspaper.com/sports/todays_headlines Why force your Zope to regenerate that page 30,000 times per day when it may only change 3 or 4 times? Zope even has built-in methods for cache management so that you can have it send special headers to the cache servers to tell them how often to re-query specific objects. You may not want to cache a stock ticker at all. OTOH, the current temperature won't drastically change in any given 5 minute interval. I haven't personally used these methods yet (see the first line of my post), but I *can* certify that a properly-configured Squid server can increase your current platform's potential throughput by several hundred percent. -- Kirk Strauser _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

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Re: [Zope] Properties in a ZClass
by Lars Heber 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Casey Duncan wrote: > > Right. This technique should give you a standard property sheet managment > interface just like standard Zope objects have. So long as a user has the > "Manage properties" permission, they should be able to manipulate the > properties for each instance. Nice thing, I (almost) got it to work! I forgot to inherit from ODS:Folder, I only inherited from ZObjectManager, that's why I didn't see the add button in the property screen. But now I've got the next problem: I want users only to add a special second ZClass within my described ZClass. But, by inheriting from ODS:Folder, users can add anything they wish! The subobjects tab doesn't have any effect. No "kind of things" is selected, but because of ODS:Folder, still everything is in the add list. I tried to play a little with permissions, but didn't find a solution. Again, can somebody help? Thanks to you all! -- Lars Heber, mailto:Lars.Heber@t-systems.de T-Systems, debis Systemhaus GEI GmbH, Geschaeftsstelle Sachsen

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unicode support in zope
by Arun John 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Iam workin in Zope2.4 on linux platform . Iam trying a multilanguage search in Zope . Is there support for Unicode in Zope ? I have found a Unicode Patch on the Zope Site. Since iam a new linux user i dont know how to install it. Can anyone help me with using the patch ? Thanks in advance Arun

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ImportError on Zope startup
by Timothy Wilson 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Hi everyone, I'm trying to get Zope 2.4.1 running with ActivePython 2.1.1. I compiled Zope with no trouble and was able to run it initially. The problem came when I tried to set it up with an INSTANCE_HOME. (Which is how 2.3.3 was running on this box.) I'm using Linux, BTW. Here's the start script: beethoven:/var/zope# cat start #! /bin/sh reldir=`dirname $0` INSTANCE_HOME=`cd $reldir; pwd` export INSTANCE_HOME PYTHONHOME=/var/zope_soft export PYTHONHOME exec /usr/local/bin/python2.1 \ $PYTHONHOME/z2.py \ -X -w 8080 "$@" When I try to run the start script I get: beethoven:/var/zope# ./start 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/zope_soft/z2.py", line 296, in ? import os, sys, getopt, string ImportError: No module named os It's a little strange that 2.4.1 would run OK without the INSTANCE_HOME start script, the INSTANCE_HOME start script worked fine w/ Zope 2.3.3 (and Python 1.5.2), and my ActivePython (/usr/local/bin/python2.1) is certainly capable of importing 'os'. Any ideas? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson(a)visi.com | <dtml-var pithy_quote> | http://linux.com

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Zope 2.4.2 Announcement
by complaw＠hal-pc.org 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Is anyone else having trouble accessing items in www.zope.org, particularly Zope 2.4.2? Or did DC/ZC figure out a way to filter out the lawyers? :) Ron

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how to make MySQL server accessible from zope
by Hamzat kamal 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Hello, I have MySQL 3.23.43 already installed on win 98 (c:\mysql). Kindly explain to me how to make my Database here accessible from zope. The root dir of my zope installation is c:\program files\website. Thanks. kamal.

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Re: [Zope] A new list needed?
by Oleg Broytmann 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Hello! In my humble experience newsserver (even private) is much more vulnerable to spam than e-mail lists. Especially closed mail ists. Like Postgres' ones. Michael, isn't it irony that you, the opponent of spam, sent the message via open relay? (-: It is not your fault, I know. Please, write to your ISP to fix the problem. X-RBL-Warning: (outputs.orbz.org) Open relay. Please see http://orbz.org/?24.234.0.81 Oleg. -- Oleg Broytmann http://phd.pp.ru/ phd(a)phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ----- Forwarded message from "Michael R. Bernstein" <webmaven(a)lvcm.com> ----- Received: from 100m.mpr200-2.esr.lvcm.net [24.234.0.81] (mirapoint) by phd.fep.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15vXXn-0002Lq-00; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:22:35 +0400 Received: from [192.168.1.102] (cm254.92.120.24.lvcm.com [24.120.92.254]) by 100m.mpr200-2.esr.lvcm.net (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id ART16950; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Zope] A new list needed? From: "Michael R. Bernstein" <webmaven(a)lvcm.com> To: Oleg Broytmann <phd(a)phd.pp.ru> Cc: zope(a)zope.org In-Reply-To: <20011021170319.C4759(a)phd.pp.ru> References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0110200911260.32635-100000(a)temp.joelburton.com> <20011020152051.41206.qmail(a)web20908.mail.yahoo.com> <20011021012752.E74584(a)zeus.theinternet.com.au> <1003595973.6593.7.camel@fiawol> <20011020170750.A3264(a)bestweb.net> <20011021170319.C4759(a)phd.pp.ru> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/0.16.99+cvs.2001.10.15.08.08 (Preview Release) Date: 21 Oct 2001 22:28:20 -0700 Message-Id: <1003728502.6593.538.camel@fiawol> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-RBL-Warning: (outputs.orbz.org) Open relay. Please see http://orbz.org/?24.234.0.81 Status: RO Content-Length: 806 Lines: 20 On Sun, 2001-10-21 at 06:03, Oleg Broytmann wrote: > On Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 05:07:50PM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 09:39:29AM -0700, Michael R. Bernstein wrote: > > > Personally, I'd prefer newsgroups to mailing lists. A news.zope.org NNTP > > > server along with a heirarchy of groups would do wonders, IMO. > > > > YES PLEASE!!!!!!! > > NO PLEASE!!!!! We have enough spam already, we don't need more spam in a > newsgroups. Actually, a newsgroup (on a private server, not Usenet)would have far less spam. any spam found on the newsgroup can be cancelled before too many people check the server. With an email list, once the listserver has sent out the email, that's it, everyone on the list will get it. That's one of the reasons that I like NNTP. Michael Bernstein. ----- End forwarded message -----

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RE: [Zope] A new list needed?
by complaw＠hal-pc.org 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

> On Sat, 2001-10-20 at 09:28, Gitte Wange wrote: > > > > Have any of you ever concidered to setup a news server ? > > I think it is much easier to find the answers belonging to your questions, > > and it's easier to see if an answer to your question already exists ... > > Yes! Unlike with mailing lists, there's no separate interface for the > archives. I agree. Squishdot has a search function. You could also create categories for the various items. Something for the dtml-in department... Ron

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