- Zope - Zope lists

Re: [Zope] A new list needed?
by Dan Shafer 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

I'm somewhere between a novice and a Zopista, I suppose, so I imagine I am representative of the majority of the folks who hang out here. Speaking for me, I don't find either the volume or the level of the traffic on this list to be so onerous that it calls out for the creation of a second more technical list. And not to put too fine a point on it but to suggest not only that we need a new list where obviously experienced Zope developers like Mr. Bengtsson don't get "bugged" by people asking them to explain technical questions but that such a list should be closed smacks dangerously of elitism. The Zope community doesn't seem to me to be so large that segregating those "in the know" from those who are desperately trying to be "in the know" is a great idea. I may just be one of those people who "won't ever need to use" stuff I ask for more detail about, but I deeply appreciate the positive and helpful attitude exhibited by virtually everyone on this list when I even think I need such assistance. It's nice that people remember what was hard for them when they were starting out and are willing to help novices even if it takes a few extra minutes of time to do so. -- Learn to absorb information, internalize new ideas, and generate creative solutions three times faster, triple guaranteed! Ask me about Acccelerated Learning Plus! Free introductory lesson. dan(a)gui.com - 831-643-0590 (Voice) - 831-401-2531 (Fax)

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Re: [Zope] call for a new list -- did we ever come to a conclusion?
by Frank Tegtmeyer 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

"alan runyan" <runyaga(a)runyaga.com> writes: > attacks. I agree w/ webmaven that he should post these emails publicly so > we could see the offenders. Personal mails should never be made public, even if they are attacks. That's a very basic rule of netiquette. > We shoulndt tolerate this in our community. You will have to live with such things in every large group of individuals. There is nothing you can do about it. And don't think about a "community of all Zope users". That's far away from reality. With bringing Zope to the masses you get exactly that: masses that see Zope only as a technical vehicle to get their job done. Regards, Frank -- CTO Lightwerk GmbH Email: fte(a)Lightwerk.com Phone: +49 2434 800781 Fax: +49 2434 800794 An der Kull 11 * 41844 Wegberg * Germany

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RE: [Zope] Mailing list / News debate
by Gitte Wange 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

On 22. oktober 2001 16:33, Chris Keyes [SMTP:chrisk@nipltd.com] wrote: > In some cases it is good to be able to reply directly to an individual, > especially if you are not 100% sure of what you are saying, posting into I am a member of a LUG where the mailinglists also are availiable through NNTP. And that works just perfect :-) I get the messages through the news server which means that my inbox doesn't get overloaded. In my news agent I can reply directly to the one asking a question "off the list" so that doesn't change from what we have now. > the full public glare of the list is not always what you want to do. I > know how stupid I feel when I have posted something and then gone Doh! > thats wrong :-) > > Its great to be part of such an active and enthusiastic community and I > hope that it continues to evolve and expand. It would be great if > productivity could be enhanced as well. Certainly following threads > would be of use to me! > > ChrisK I agree completely with you Chris. I don't think the possibility to have the mailinglist should be removed. But there should be an option for using a NNTP server. Most of the time I only check my work account (where I recieve the Zope mail) when I'm at work. So guess what I am doing all monday :-) If I could read the messages through news I could just delete the threads that I wouldn't be interested in. Much quicker. Also the possibility of deleting messages before they actually are posted is a Good Thing. Just my $0.02 ... Gitte Wange

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call for a new list -- did we ever come to a conclusion?
by alan runyan 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

I vote for a NNTP feed of the list. I have no idea whats needed and I certainly dont have the time to do it. but I read c.l.p on occassion because its NNTP. I rarely step to the popermail archives for zope, c.l.p, or cmf. unless I'm looking for something. I think the mailing list is way too busy for its own good and support the notion of having a zope-advanced place for people to talk about product development and more technical issues than the main zope mailing list. I also think zope-dev isnt appropriate since it is for the internals of zope. are there any takers for doing this? if ZOPE gets more and more newbies we will just see a increase in traffic to the main zope mailing list and the more experienced people will leave. most of the newbie questions can, in fact be answered by newbies or people who have been using zope for a few days. I bet segmenting the list would maybe increase subscription -- who wants to drink out of a firehose? I'm fine for drinking out of a zope newbie fountain. whats very worrying is that Andrew says he got personal attacks. I know the Zope community has grown in the past few years. but I thought on a whole the community was mature enough and warm-hearted enough to be above personal attacks. I agree w/ webmaven that he should post these emails publicly so we could see the offenders. We shoulndt tolerate this in our community. ~runyaga

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Microseconds in DateTime
by Nicola Larosa 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

The __str__ function in DateTime.DateTime cuts off two precision digits from the time returned by time.time(), falling off to tenths of milliseconds instead of keeping the microseconds. If it feels unrighteous to put the hard work of gettimeofday() to waste, apply the patch below to lib/python/DateTime/DateTime.py, and get back that microsecond precision. Yes, on some hardware/software platforms those microseconds are significant, and yes, they can be useful in many situations. Here is the patch. --- DateTime.py Thu Jul 05 17:55:29 2001 +++ DateTime.py.NEW Mon Oct 22 16:00:36 2001 @@ -1558,11 +1558,11 @@ y,m,d =self._year,self._month,self._day h,mn,s,t=self._hour,self._minute,self._second,self._tz if(h+mn+s): - if (s-int(s))> 0.0001: + if (s-int(s)) >= 0.000001: try: # For the seconds, print two digits # before the decimal point. - subsec = split('%g' % s, '.')[1] + subsec = split('%f' % s, '.')[1] return '%4.4d/%2.2d/%2.2d %2.2d:%2.2d:%2.2d.%s %s' % ( y,m,d,h,mn,s,subsec,t) except: -- Nicola Larosa - nico(a)tekNico.net

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Mailing list / News debate
by Chris Keyes 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Just my £0.015 I usually try and make my way through the digests (althought today Mozilla would not render past message 18), I know people who get relevant articles forwarded to them as they are unable to plod through the whole list. I'm fully in support of the idea of a system that allows news, email and possibly web participation. The idea of segregating the list is in principal a good way of making the traffic more specific, however I also agree with the danger, as often people spot things that they would not directly read and answer. There is certainly a great deal of difficulty in selecting the right area to address problems, so, it could lead to an increase in problems going unanswered and probably worse cross posting. Currently many DB questions are answered here on the main list, rather than the DB list, although I could be wrong in assuming that they should be directed there?? In some cases it is good to be able to reply directly to an individual, especially if you are not 100% sure of what you are saying, posting into the full public glare of the list is not always what you want to do. I know how stupid I feel when I have posted something and then gone Doh! thats wrong :-) Its great to be part of such an active and enthusiastic community and I hope that it continues to evolve and expand. It would be great if productivity could be enhanced as well. Certainly following threads would be of use to me! ChrisK

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Uploading files help?
by Richard Hewison 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Being a 'newbie', I have only just started experimenting with Zope v2.4.1. So far, so good but I'm now hitting the limits of my own knowledge and understanding. I have a web site which needs to store documents (word, excel, pdf, etc.). I want these documents to be shown in a simple table with a relevant icon (word, pdf etc.) in the first cell, a link to the document in the second, the author in the third and the date it was last amended in the last. Getting Zope to look in a folder and return the links to the files is simple thanks to the examples I've found. However, I really want to create a form that any user can use to upload the file object to the relevant folder. The form includes the values (doc type, doc author, doc date, etc.) that I want to be added to the object as properties when it is uploaded to the folder. How can this be achieved?

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MSWord Document Question
by Sumiya Sakoda 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Hi, all. I am using MSWord Document Product. I don't konw it is possibue or not, but I'd like to insert it between standard_html_header and standard_html_footer like this. (testdoc is the id of MSWord Document) <dtml-var standard_html_header> <dtml-var "testdoc"> <dtml-var standard_html_footer> I tried <dtml-var testdoc> also, but both of them don't work. Does anyone help me ? TIA -- Sumiya Sakoda <sakoda(a)toyoake.or.jp>

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Re: [Zope] A new list needed (and/or a new feature of documentation)?
by Oliver Bleutgen 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Robert Rottermann wrote: >> This I find is a VERY!!! good proposal. >> >> How would I have loved to have such a thing!! >> (and still do) > The Developers Guide at zope.org has BackTalk features like this now; if > you want to see an example. Cool! Now we all just have to get the word out, to fill this with live. I didn't know this existed, apparently it isn't mentioned anywhere else. cheers, oliver

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RE: [Zope] A new list needed (and/or a new feature of documentation)?
by Oliver Bleutgen 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

> Being a non-so-developer type myself and not being too good with python > yet, I had said the same thing myself. But truth is, its all there in > some place or another. Finding it is the difficult part because the > really technical information lies in documents with slightly ambiguous > names. Who would thing that AppendixB.dtml was going to teach me how to > resize an image using <dtml-var "ImageObject.tag(width=yadda)">? > But something I think may be nice, but perhaps is already here. Is there > a Code Collector that we can read/submit submissions of coding (dtml and > python)? I stumbled upon a site somewhere that had something like it and > then I lost the link. However, it only had 3 entries at the time. There is one at zdp.zope.org (code snippets). I know I repeat a mail I did sometime before, but zdp doesn't work. It doesn't work because we split resources and make it too hard for people to contribute. I want to propose another idea, which is IMO well-tested and works good. Php.net has it and postgresql.org too. Php.net calls it annotated documentation. It gives users the ability to post remarks to chapters of the documentation, for adding errata, catches, and code snippets. I don't know why nobody seems to think this is worthy, IMO it would help to build a more or less _single_ source of information esp. for "newbies" (but not only). How often do we read "I tried xyz from chapterNN of blabla-documentation and it doesn't work", and the answer is "You got it nearly right but you also have to do ZvoodooStuff". Take for instance http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.file-upload.php There are many posts describing what they tried, what didn't work, and what they did to remedy the problem - exactly what is IMO needed for zope. This is the place where (most) beginners (and others) will look first - attached at the relevant chapter of the documentation. This is the place where people can easily contribute after solving their problem, after all they went there before in search for help. And finally, it's the place where authors of the docs have a central repository for feedback, to see what they might add in the next rev of the documentation. > For those of us that struggle at first with Zope syntax and language, > code snippets are the very best thing to learn from. Its frustrating to > know how something is done, but have to ask a question on the list that > verifies you missed something simple because the answer was as stupid as > the question, once its worked out. Btw. sometimes I have problems with not zope-, but browser-/http- specific questions. A search on google often yields a link to phps annotated docs, and all I have to do is to translate that solution into zope. Why can't we have something like that? I think the building blocks are there already. cheers, oliver

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