- Zope - Zope lists

Yahoo-like link design
by John Glossner 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

Having worked through the ZClasses tutorial and howto examples, I now have a design question. Being very inexperienced with Zope, I would like to create a catalog of links that automatically updates itself when new links are added. I suppose the best way to do this is to inherit from CatalogAware and ZObjectManager. CatalogAware (as I understand it) allows me to automatically update itself and ZObjectManager allows me to embedd sub-links. Then I can add a search interface to find links. My Links tree would look something like: /Links + History + US History + European History + Languages + Dutch + English Does this sound like a reasonable way to keep a database of links? Does anyone have better suggestions? I prefer not to store them in an external DB (since I'm learning Zope). One other thought, instead of ZObjectManager perhaps I should inherit from Folder? Thanks, John

1 0

RE: [Zope-dev] pam authentication support with PyPam
by Alexander Staubo 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

There are two aspedcts of the current security subsystem that bug me. The first is the fact that only user folders are accumulative only at folder boundaries. You cannot create one UserFolder and one NTUserFolder at the same level and have them co-opt the user authentication responsibility. The second, more serious gripe is with the security permission model. Look at NT 4.0 and the security UI that comes with SP4/SP5's Security Configuration Manager for a good example (installing it will upgrade NT's security dialogs with a new UI). While Zope permits acquired, accumulative access definitions specified across _all_ roles for each permission, this is too coarse and leads to huge sysadmin headaches (I know -- I've been there, and I'm still there). We need fine-grained, per-role permissions that let us specify whether a role acquired the permissions of the parent, or whether it allows or denies the permission. Instead of the matrix we have today (below, "[X]" denotes a checkbox): Acquire Permission Anonymous Manager Owner [X] Access contents information [X] [X] [X] [X] View [X] [X] [X] [X] View management screens [X] [X] [X] ...we ought to have something like this (here, "[...][]" denotes a combo box): Permission Anonymous Manager Owner Access contents information [Acquire][] [Deny ][] [Allow ][] View [ ][] [ ][] [ ][] View management screens [ ][] [ ][] [ ][] Each combo box would be set to either "Acquire", "Allow", or "Deny". "Acquire" has the role acquire the permission setting of the acquisition parent. "Allow" specifically gives the permission to that role. "Deny", of course, explicitly denies the permission to the role. I shouldn't need to point this out as it should be paintfully obvious to anyone who has used Zope's permission settings, but the problem is that a role's permission setting is either allow/deny, but the acquisition switch applies to all the roles. One you un-check the "Acquire permissions..." checkbox, you must explicitly define the permissions for each role, independent of whether the role is relevant. In a small, flat, and/or simple ZODB this system is usually endurable, but in a real-world object hierarchy where roles must be delegated carefully, it doesn't work. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that Zope has no provision for summarizing the security permissions in effect throughout the site, or batch-applying security settings. If subfolder Foo's permission settings deviate from that of a parent, I can't know unless I go to the folder and look at the security tab. One folder is okay; if you have a hundred of those, it's a tad more serious. -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "Give me an underground laboratory, half a dozen atom smashers and a beautiful girl in a diaphanous veil waiting to be turned into a chimpanzee, and I care not who writes the nation's laws." --S. J. Perelman > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Pelletier [mailto:michel@digicool.com] > Sent: 18. oktober 1999 16:13 > To: 'Will Fife'; Oleg Broytmann > Cc: zope-dev(a)zope.org > Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] pam authentication support with PyPam > > > Regardless of whether or not Zope has a PAM folder (which I think is a > good idea) we need to discuss an upcomming problem with Zope user > authentication: the proliferation of user folders. > > The problem is there are now quite a few user folders that all kinda > look the same, smell the same, and share a good bit of code. This is > very brittle. The 'backends' should be abstracted away from the > 'frontend' and we should return to the original state of > grace, one type > of user folder. > > At the moment if we were to change an aspect of Zope > authentication that > would break existing user folders, we would have to go and fix every > single one, the orpaned ones without maintainers (like > etcUserFolder, my > personal orphan) would simply remain broken until someone got > frustrated > enough to fix them. This is a pretty bad state of affairs. > > So lets fire up a discussion on what kind of model we could > impliment to > have a generic user folder with pluggable backends (one of which could > be PAM). It might even be a good idea to look *at* PAM for > some ideas, > anyone here a PAM expert? > > Hmm.. it might also be nice to take Membership and the ZPT into > consideration here, like support for extensable user objects (if the > 'backend' supports it) etc. > > -Michel > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > (Related lists - please, no cross posts or HTML encoding! > > To receive general Zope announcements, see: > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > For non-developer, user-level issues, > zope(a)zope.org, http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) >

1 0

String to a List
by Kulpinski, Dejan 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

Does anybody know how o convert a string into a list ? I need this in order to supply data to in tag Thanx, Dejan Kulpinski Sierra Systems Consultants Inc. (604) 688-1371/450

2 1

RE: [Zope] Zope.org performance
by Michel Pelletier 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Treadway [mailto:seant@factory.dk] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 11:07 AM > To: Zope List > Subject: [Zope] Zope.org performance > > > Now, I am keen on Zope like nobody, but after going to www.zope.org > Friday at about 10:00 US/EST the site would not respond any > faster than > 30 secs/hit?!? Note that ~10am is one of the peak usage times for internet bandwidth. > If the site's poor performance is explainable, then please, we want an > explanation. If not, then what kind of options do we have if > we plan to > deploy Zope in a similar, as I see it now, medium sized web > site and why > aren't they used on www.zope.org? The Zope site is currently under a huge strain due to the explosive popularity of Zope. > This has become somewhat of a FAQ. Are there any statistics > about what > kind of setup Zope.org is running? How many machines, pcgi > or ZServer, > how many hits/day, mean response time, ZODB size, is it using > ZEO, etc.? It is _one_ little trooper of a PII 350Mhz. It is running Apache 1.3.4 through PCGI to ZServer running with six Zope threads. It currently gets approx 50,000 hits per day. The ZODB size, packed, is 150+ MB and slowly growing. There is nothing really special about this hardware, just a straight up intel box with a SCSI drive and 256MB of memory. The machine is hosted in Los Angeles, CA by Codeit computing on a 10Mbit ethernet. The load average, right at this moment, is 6.28 (ouch!) The machine serves as our web server, mail server, mail-list server (which sends over a hundred messages to over a thousand people a day, you do the math), and demo server. We are right now in discussion with a major linux hardware vendor about getting a couple big boxes to take the strain. The upshot of all this is that Zope has been running beautifully on the zope site under this huge strain; this is real world testing in action. No one anticipiated the massive surge in resources that happened over the past three months. In June, we had 500K hits per month, in August, 1.1M. This month looks like it's going to break all the records. -Michel

2 1

trying to run ZServer with PCGI
by vinod tipparaju 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

Hi I was trying to run ZServer with pcgi .. details first... on : solaris 2.5 zope ver: 2.0.1 python ver: 1.5.2 intending to use zope with apache 1.3.6.... I used python z2.py -p . the error I got is... Traceback (innermost last): File "z2.py", line 463, in ? logger_object=lg) File "/home/Zope-2.0.1-src/ZServer/PCGIServer.py", line 282, in __init__ self.read_info(pcgi_file) File "/home/Zope-2.0.1-src/ZServer/PCGIServer.py", line 319, in read_info k,v=string.split(line,'=',1) ValueError: unpack list of wrong size can u help me with what the reason for this error could be??? and I 've changed HTTP_PORT to some other number cause i was already using 8080..it should'nt make a difference..should it vinod.

1 0

Zope.org performance
by Sean Treadway 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

Now, I am keen on Zope like nobody, but after going to www.zope.org Friday at about 10:00 US/EST the site would not respond any faster than 30 secs/hit?!? I was trying to convince somebody of the power of Zope and in return I got a very suspicious customer. Please, could someone give some load information about the main zope site? It is an excellent place for evangelizing Zope and giving a seat-of-the-pants demo, only if it is performing well. If the site's poor performance is explainable, then please, we want an explanation. If not, then what kind of options do we have if we plan to deploy Zope in a similar, as I see it now, medium sized web site and why aren't they used on www.zope.org? This has become somewhat of a FAQ. Are there any statistics about what kind of setup Zope.org is running? How many machines, pcgi or ZServer, how many hits/day, mean response time, ZODB size, is it using ZEO, etc.? Thanks, Sean

1 0

RE: [Zope] More Pystone benchmarks...
by Michel Pelletier 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Tony McDonald [mailto:tony.mcdonald@ncl.ac.uk] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 8:05 AM > To: Zope List > Subject: [Zope] More Pystone benchmarks... > > > Hi all, > > Q: How comes the Sun boxes are just so bad at Python? is the Sparc > architecture *that* bad? One of the reasons you are seeing much better Apache performance on your four-by than Zope is probably due to the Python global interpreter lock. Where multiple apache processes can run on all four processors with no interlocking, multiple zope threads running in the same process space all lock around the central python interpreter lock. While some IO operations and other things are done unlocked (like Zope DA communication, if the underying C library was written to release and acquire the lock) for the most part Zope can't get much advantage from a multi-processor system. This is one of the reasons behind ZEO. ZEO basicly breaks the thread model out into the multi-processor model, where the processes can be running locally or on seperate machines. On your four-by, for example, you could run 3 or 4 ZEO client processes and one ZEO server process. When your load fills up, you can simply plug more machines running ZEO clients into the ZEO server. No one has tested this scalablility yet because no-one has come to us with these kinds of load requirements. It will happen, in fact, some of our recent customers are gearing up for this kind of load. -Michel

1 0

RE: [Zope] The name ZOPE (was RE: [Zope] Linux.com community ad)
by Ian Blenke 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Ben Leslie wrote: > Hi Alexander! > > On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Alexander Staubo wrote: > > > The name is easier to distinguish for Americans, I think, who pronounce > > the letter "Z" differently from the character "S". I'm pretty sure Brits > > don't do this, but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, the verbal > > resemblance between "Zope" and "soap" is still pretty high. "Zope on a rope" seems to be a general first American impression of the name. Speaking of a "clean" name... > OK this may be a small problem however I think the fact that Zope is so > unique makes it fantastic. All the major search engines that I just > tried (Google, AltaVista, Lycos, Infoseek) all returned Zope on the first > page (well the first hit apart from AltaVista). Zope is unique. Zope is origional. It is rather odd that php4 is now Zend. :P DC: Don't change a thing, no matter what anyone tells you :) > This is a _real_ advantage. Compare this with trying to find information > on some other stuff, such as soap. I spent almost an hour the other day > trying to find information on Soap without any luck (if any one has any > URLs where I can find information that would be great). Someone posted this link to SOAP on the Zope list earlier: http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/xml/general/soaptemplate.asp And here is the Microsoft SOAP IETF draft: http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/xml/general/SOAP_V09.asp > SO the point I'm trying to make is that Zope is a great name because it > is unique which means its really easy to remember and just about zero > chance of confusing it with anything else. SOAP would be the only thing to really confuse it with. Haven't heard much talk about SOAP interacting with XML-RPC in Zope, or how Zope might implement SOAP later. This confusion should generally help Zope, though, not hurt it. - Ian C. Blenke <icblenke(a)2c2.com> <ian(a)blenke.com>

8 7

www.zope.org's source?
by Marc-André Lafortune 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

You wondering: I know I can get the DTMl of just about any page of www.zope.org (very nice feature), but is it possible to access the whole site to look at the organization, modules, etc... ? Also, is it just me or the site is very slow (~3 seconds delay for most requests)? I just hope it isn't because of Zope itself, but what else could it be?

1 0

Question on: How-To: When Cookies won't do it
by Johan Carlsson 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

I browsed trough the How-To: When Cookies won't do it and I have some questions. How much speed do you really gain from using file for data marshaling? Would it be a good idea to use Object Pooling (pre created objects) to speed up a session object solution? The reason I don't like the file based solution is that I won't scale with ZEO but a Object solution would, right? There would also be possible for cool stuff like session failover and long time session (much list version but individual and perhaps with a limited scoop) Another reason is that I like the concept of the ZODB, why think in a non ZODB way? Regards, Johan Carlsson torped johan carlsson birkagatan 9 113 36 stockholm telefon 08-32 31 23 mobil 070-558 25 24 fax 08-32 89 47 johanc(a)torped.se

3 7