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RE: [Zope-dev] inconsistency in tag argument syntax
by Jay, Dylan 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Martijn Pieters [mailto:mj@antraciet.nl] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 18:30 > To: Jay, Dylan; 'zope(a)zope.org' > Cc: 'zope-dev(a)zope.org' > Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] inconsistency in tag argument syntax > > > At 09:32 07/10/99 , Jay, Dylan wrote: > >After playing around with making a tag an inconsistency in > the tag syntax > >became apparent to me. Sometimes "asd" is treated as an > expression and > >sometimes as a string. e.g. > ><dtml-let blah="aObject.method()"> is an expression however > ><dtml-mime name="aObject.method()"> makes the name argument > a string with > >'aObject.method()' > >This is confusing and inconsistent. Also treating any > argument always as a > >string means that the value of the argument can never be dynamically > >specified i.e. there is no way I could name a mime block > dynamically e.g. > >from a form. The same applies for instance to the 'sort' argument in > ><dtml-in>. This is very limiting. > > > >The problem is however that I can't see a backwards > compatible way of fixing > >this problem. Alternatives are > >a) You could introduce a evaluate expression syntax like > there is in sh > >script. i.e. name="`myMethod()`". This however makes things > more confusing > >and unreadable. > >b) Another possibility is to make all "non-expression" > arguments become > >expression arguments. This would break existing code and > mean all string > >constants look like name="'A name'" which is also not > intuitive and messy. > >This could be made cleaner by allowing syntax such as name='A name'. > >c) Or ignore the problem. > > > >I prefer option b). > >What do other people think? > > Hmm.. > > This is not as inconsistent and illogical as you think. Your > DTML page is > compiled into a hierarchy of objects, speeding up rendering > of the page > when called. Most attributes are static, which helps. Only > those attributes > that need to be dynamic, are really so, just to help this > along. Attributes > that allow expressions are an exception, not a rule. First let me clarify. By incosistent I meant from a user perspective. To have one named argument be treated completely differently from another depending on context is very confusing for the user. I think that logical consistancy and readability of a language are very important. It seems these were very important in the design of python however I don't think those principles have translated as nicely to DTML. DTML's goal should be to easy for everyone. Basically syntax "exceptions" are not a way to make an easy to use language. Anyone who has learnt english as a second language will tell you how hard it is because english has so many "exceptions". As for speed, this is irrelevent. A static value can be recorded as such regardless if a variable can be used instead. A simple check to determine if it is static or not is not a big performance hit.

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PythonMethods 0.1.3
by Evan Simpson 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Bugfix release 0.1.3 of PythonMethods fixes the 'self parameter' bug. Now available at http://zope.org/Members/4am/PythonMethod

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RE: [Zope] Webfolders and IE5
by Ian Blenke 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

> Wow, what a wonderful piece of information to know! I'll look at adding > this as something on Zope.org from a Member's preferences page. That's something that I'm just now starting to pick up to speed on. Creating a Zope Tip for something like this isn't a bad idea. > Another MS specific thing I've been doing a lot lately is Office2k's new > HTML file format, kind of an MSXHTML thingie. We needed a way to > paginate and desktop publish the various structured text documents we > author as part of the Unified Process we use here for consulting gigs. We're looking for much the same thing here (as are most businesses :) I'm working on an Engineering Intranet site for Engineering Documents with complete version control and histories. The most difficult part is working with structured text/graphics documents in a way that can be updated back on the Zope server. Both Python and Zope take a bit of getting used to, even for a seasoned vet :) The PDF hacks looked interesting - but this won't be adequate. Users want Microsoft Office, they want to store documents in a common repository (with some sort of index and search), and it wouldn't hurt if everything were on the Intranet. > Since (a) the new format is a clear-text compatible language, and (b) > Zope is WebDAV compatible, we can get Zope to cobble together numerous > documents into one long Word Document. Even better, what you're > actually viewing in Word is generated from different DTML methods, > meaning we can give different contents based on things like queries, the > role of the user, etc. EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Collaboration on this is a must :) > I'm modelling our sales funnel in Excel based on data pumped from an XML > Document through various DTML methods that give me different detail. > It's really cool! *pant, drool* There must be others out there with this same need. A full document publishing system based on XML with WebDAV publishing and web presentation - it's paperless office nirvana. People are developing Access databases and Excell spreadsheets everywhere today for this very reason. Replace it with a simple to maintain web interface and they're sold. Sales will want it. Engineering will want it. Marketing will want it. Finance will want it. And IS shops *should* be willing to supply it. :) > Yes, I spent literally 4 hours scouring their (Microsofts) website and the web at > large for some kind of documentation of this damn MSXHTML-like markup > language they use. I want to modify the Excel spreadsheet and, using > WebDAV, save it back to Zope, which would parse it and update things. Been there. Done that. Burned the T-Shirt. If there were only a true OpenSource rich-text XML editing platform with the same featureset. Someday (soon I hope), we will have options. > I'm a damn, damn good web scourer, and eventually concluded that > Microsoft intentionally doesn't document it. Believe it or not, their > DTD declaration points to an ActiveX control. Thus, their DTD is a > non-published, compiled, binary, internal thing. Unreal. It's an XML schema. Everyone has their own schema these days. Most of them not fully formed DTD, or published :) - Ian C. Blenke <ian(a)blenke.com> <icblenke(a)2c2.com>

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Design question for a problem tracking Systems using Zope
by Oliver Andrich 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Hi, I decided, because crucial need and lack of any good system, to develop a problem tracking system using Zope. But I have to ask some questions before starting on this project and maybe some people which already reached a certain level of Zope Zen, can help me with my questions and problems. 1. user management ================== The Zope user module suits my needs very good, but I like to add some extra properties to users. Is it possible to easily extend the user management system of Zope. I need only three extra fields: email address, telephone and fax number. I searched on Zope.org for User and such terms, but haven't anything on this yet. Or do I have to develop my own user management system? 2. Bunch of DTML Documents + Factory methods vs. SQL database ============================================================= This system will be used for a small administrator team of an ISP. We already gave PTS and keepstone a try, but both sucked more or less. Both use a SQL database as storage, this is fine but on the other hand it would be fine that tasks are simply new DTML documents, and follow ups are also just documents linked to the first document. Documents would be nice, cause so we can use the access control system of Zope and can easily decide which documents should be public visible. Got what I mean? I mean is, what is a tracking system different from a bunch of documents which are associated to a task or problem? So wouldn't be a document approach be a nice way to do this? Things as due dates, expiration, returning tasks after n days etc. can be achieved Zopes builtin mechanism. So, some opinions on this would be a nice thing. I know, that this is not a Zope question in itself, but I need some input form Zope Zen users, that can help me to decide on this question. I know how to do the SQL thing, but the document thing seems nice to me. But is it possible using Zope? Thanks and best regards, Oliver -- Oliver Andrich, KEVAG Telekom GmbH, Schlossstrasse 42, D-56068 Koblenz Telefon: 0261-3921027 / Fax: 0261-3921033 / Web: http://rhein-zeitung.de

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Test please ignore -- RTF
by dale w lance 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Ive been told I'm posting RTF this is a test to see if I have fixed it please forgive the intrusion

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RE: [Zope] Webfolders and IE5
by Paul Everitt 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Ian wrote: > Here's a little snippet for those of you stuck with IE5 to > show the current > page as an IE5/Office2000 webfolder. None of this will work > for *any* other > browser. Don't blame me :) [snip] Wow, what a wonderful piece of information to know! I'll look at adding this as something on Zope.org from a Member's preferences page. Another MS specific thing I've been doing a lot lately is Office2k's new HTML file format, kind of an MSXHTML thingie. We needed a way to paginate and desktop publish the various structured text documents we author as part of the Unified Process we use here for consulting gigs. Since (a) the new format is a clear-text compatible language, and (b) Zope is WebDAV compatible, we can get Zope to cobble together numerous documents into one long Word Document. Even better, what you're actually viewing in Word is generated from different DTML methods, meaning we can give different contents based on things like queries, the role of the user, etc. I'm modelling our sales funnel in Excel based on data pumped from an XML Document through various DTML methods that give me different detail. It's really cool! > All of this was found on a Microsoft webpage while looking > for "WebDAV" and > "WebFolders" - but I've already lost the link. If you find it > again, you may > wish to post it here. How anyone can find anything on the > Microsoft website > is beyond me. Yes, I spent literally 4 hours scouring their website and the web at large for some kind of documentation of this damn MSXHTML-like markup language they use. I want to modify the Excel spreadsheet and, using WebDAV, save it back to Zope, which would parse it and update things. I'm a damn, damn good web scourer, and eventually concluded that Microsoft intentionally doesn't document it. Believe it or not, their DTD declaration points to an ActiveX control. Thus, their DTD is a non-published, compiled, binary, internal thing. Unreal. --Paul

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Zope - using dtml-tree to browse the database ?
by Kulpinski, Dejan 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Hello, Does anybody know how to use dtml-tree to make a database browser (using Document object as an argument to the leaves argument - as mentioned on page 50 of Zope Document Template Markup Language Reference) ? Dejan Kulpinski

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Tiny Table and Zclasses problem
by Bill Anderson 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

So, here I am working on a Zclass (call it foo), which inherits ffrom Catlog and ObjectManager, which I have ,limited to File, Image, and TinyTable allowed to be added. When I add a file or image, all is well. however, when I add a TinyTable, the table is actually added to the folder containing the Zclass instance, and the screen is the contents screen for it, with the url being mungeds, as such: /Stuff #main folder \ --Object # A foo instance Here, I try to add tinytable "MYTable" to Object from the drop down box, and a file "Afile" I get the following: Folder at /Stuff/Object |--Object |-- Afile |--MYTable And the url displayed on the contents page is: /Stuff/Object but, as you can hopefully see, is displaying the contents to /Stuff Zope 2.01, latest TinyTables. Any ideas? -- Bill Anderson Linux/Unix Administrator, Security Analyst ESBU (ARC) banderson(a)boi.hp.com My opinions are just that; _my_ opinions.

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zclass suggestion
by Peter Sabaini 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

hubu just a suggestion: i'd find it useful you could specify "destructor objects" along with "constructor objects" when defining zclasses. with constructor objects i define what should happen when producing an instance of a zclass. with a destructor object i could specify what will happen upon deletion of that object (eg. syncing with other data sources). right now i only have the option of messing with much of the manage_ methods (i think?) peter. -- _________________________________________________ peter sabaini, mailto: sabaini(a)niil.at -------------------------------------------------

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Webfolders and IE5
by Ian Blenke 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Here's a little snippet for those of you stuck with IE5 to show the current page as an IE5/Office2000 webfolder. None of this will work for *any* other browser. Don't blame me :) -- Option #1--- In your stylesheet, add the following: A { behavior: url(#default#AnchorClick); color: #000000; } Then, whenever you use the "FOLDER=" option in an Anchor, when you click on the link - the WebFolder will be shown (using WebDAV access): <A HREF="/webfolder" FOLDER="" >View WebFolder</A> Note, the HREF in the above example is ignored - but I've included it to start the below method in case the stylesheet change wasn't present. You *do* need an HREF, but it should point to a page telling users that they have the wrong browser to accomplish this function (or something to that effect). -- Option #2 --- If the above solution is too painful, you can also create a wrapper method and do generally the same thing. Simply cut the following and put it in a "webfolder" method in the root of your site. Then merely append a "/webfolder" to any directory to view it as an IE webfolder: (NOTE: This DOES NOT WORK with Netscape) <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE></TITLE> <STYLE> .httpFolder {behavior: url(#default#httpFolder);} </STYLE> <SCRIPT> function init(){ oDAV.navigateFrame("","_self"); } </SCRIPT> <BODY ONLOAD="init()"> <DIV ID = "oDAV" CLASS = "httpFolder" > </BODY> </HTML> All of this was found on a Microsoft webpage while looking for "WebDAV" and "WebFolders" - but I've already lost the link. If you find it again, you may wish to post it here. How anyone can find anything on the Microsoft website is beyond me. Hope this helps someone. - Ian C. Blenke <ian(a)blenke.com> <icblenke(a)2c2.com>

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