- Zope - Zope lists

- Serving Zope...
by Andy Smith 16 Dec '98

16 Dec '98

Hi All, I'd like to begin a thread on the list to try to gain a consensus as to what the needs of Zope users are w.r.t Web Servers. The DC guys, being understandably very busy at the moment, thought it might be preferable if someone else tried to elicit some opinions/feedback on the topic. A couple of issues that could be thrown into the mix ... o With ZopeHTTPServer supplied as part of Zope anyway, should support for Apache be that high a priority? o Does the average Zoper actually use the preconfigured Apache ... or does he/she use the installation to figure out how to configure an existing server. o How can pcgi be used to best effect? Would an apache mod_pcgi be useful? o How can Apache's proxy handler be leveraged to accomplish integration between it and Zope? o What are the security issues, both filesystem and authentication/encryption, that people are facing? o How can medusa be used to best effect? o Is anyone working on any Apache/Webserver related projects that may be relevant to the thread? o Would anyone *like* to be working on any Apache/Webserver related projects that may be relevant to the thread? ;) o [ Also insert 9,10,11... which are relevant but I've failed to include ] The purpose of this exercise will be to provide DC (and the Zope community at large) an idea of how people are currently accessing zope, what they want, where effort should be directed, and also where effort *is* currently being directed by the community, so as to avoid re-inventing wheels ;) The floor is open! Cheers, Andy.

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- Zopefying existing websites
by Ronald Offerman 16 Dec '98

16 Dec '98

In an attempt to get the Zope message across ASAP, I am Zopefying our new corporate website (which is going online this week pending approval) and I found a few real needs ;=) Need 1: Importing (websucking?) existing sites into Zope. Importing hundreds of files by hand is NO fun ;-( (uploading pages using Composer doesn't seem to work for me, Linux/Apache 1.3.3/Zope). Need 2: Search and REPLACE. Having imported an existing site, I want to replace a lot of the HTML with DTML. (our corporate site has at least 4 references for each of the twenty companies scattered through 200+ HTML pages). A nice (java) editor would also be nice 8=)) -- <- Ronald Offerman | ron(a)gjt-it.nl <- Root Powered Carrot Munchers Ltd. Inc. SA AG BV "Daddy, why do those people have to use Microsoft Windows?" "Don't stare, son; it's not polite." "M$ Windows NT, an accident waiting to happen" "What goes up, must come down. Ask any system administrator."

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- WebDAV again...
by Magnus Lie Hetland 16 Dec '98

16 Dec '98

At http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/ietf/webdav/ under "Clients" I noticed the following: davlib.py, a Python language API for WebDAV. Xerox PARC, not yet available for public use. Cool... :) -- Magnus Lie Hetland www.pvv.org/arcadia <arcadia(a)pvv.org>

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RE: [Zope] - NT/Apache problems
by Schmidt, Allen J. 16 Dec '98

16 Dec '98

Did you have any problems on your Win95 install? I installed it and it runs but if I go to the manage screen the error states invalid data returned by the server and the DOS window shows many errors. ??? Allen -----Original Message----- From: Martijn Faassen [mailto:faassen@vet.uu.nl] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 9:43 AM To: zope(a)zope.org Subject: [Zope] - NT/Apache problems Hi there, I'm trying to get Zope (latest binary release for win32) working on Windows NT, using Apache 1.3.3. When trying to get to Zope with the URL: http://localhost/cgi-bin/Zope.exe/manage I get the following message: The resource you requested is temporarily unavailable - please try again later. So I wander over to the troubleshooting guide on the Zope web page, and happily find this error is mentioned. Unfortunately, the text there applies to Unix mostly (which I'm unfortunately not able to use for this project), and doesn't seem to help with my NT problem. When I go to the Services, Zope is in the listing. It isn't Started, though, and when I try to start it it gives the following error: Error 0002: The system cannot find the file specified. I'm assuming the Zope.exe in the cgi-bin dir tries to start the Zope service when first called, but it fails, and this produces the Service not available message? As adviced by the troubleshooting doc, I looked at the source of this page for info on the error. Here it is: Pipe connect failed The troubleshooting doc mentioned trying to start the file pcgifile.py to test things. This file doesn't appear to be included by the Win32 binary installation of Zope (nor the subdir Util under pcgi the doc mentions it should be in). The doc says this: On Windows NT platforms, check the event log under "Application Log" for error information. I'm a new to NT and Zope, and I couldn't find this. Where can I find Application Log? Note that I'm a poor newbie! I'm new to Zope, Apache, and NT (but not to Python). I did get Apache working as a service on NT though, and I got the cgi-bin directory configured, I think (otherwise I wouldn't see this message). I also previously got Zope working on a Win95 box, with Zope's built-in web server. Newbie now; hopefully getting up to speed quickly! I hope someone can help me with this problem. Thanks for your attention, and regards, Martijn

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RE: [Zope] - NT/Apache problems
by Brian Lloyd 16 Dec '98

16 Dec '98

> Hi there, > > I'm trying to get Zope (latest binary release for win32) working on > Windows NT, using Apache 1.3.3. > > When trying to get to Zope with the URL: > > http://localhost/cgi-bin/Zope.exe/manage > > I get the following message: > > The resource you requested is temporarily unavailable - > please try again > later. > > So I wander over to the troubleshooting guide on the Zope web > page, and > happily find this error is mentioned. Unfortunately, the text there > applies to Unix mostly (which I'm unfortunately not able to > use for this > project), and doesn't seem to help with my NT problem. > > When I go to the Services, Zope is in the listing. It isn't Started, > though, and when I try to start it it gives the following error: > > Error 0002: The system cannot find the file specified. > > I'm assuming the Zope.exe in the cgi-bin dir tries to start the Zope > service when first called, but it fails, and this produces the Service > not available message? No, you need to start the service manually. The error you are getting in your browser is reasonable - it is complaining that it cant connect to the service. Not surprising, since it doesn't want to start for you ;) > > As adviced by the troubleshooting doc, I looked at the source of this > page for info on the error. Here it is: > > Pipe connect failed > > The troubleshooting doc mentioned trying to start the file > pcgifile.py to test things. This file doesn't appear to be included by > the Win32 binary installation of Zope (nor the subdir Util under pcgi > the doc mentions it should be in). We need to clarify the docs on this -- pcgi is not yet bundled with Zope for NT. > > The doc says this: > > On Windows NT platforms, check the event log under "Application > Log" for error information. > > I'm a new to NT and Zope, and I couldn't find this. Where can I find > Application Log? The Application Log is a part of the NT Event Log. On NT, go to Start | Help and look up "Event Viewer" for more info. Services on win32 can log errors (or other things) to the event log. When you attempted to start the Zope service, it should have made an entry in the "Application Log" portion of the NT event log, which should include the error that you mentioned above *and* a python traceback -- I'll need to see what the traceback says to help you figure out what's going on. Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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- NT/Apache problems
by Martijn Faassen 16 Dec '98

16 Dec '98

Hi there, I'm trying to get Zope (latest binary release for win32) working on Windows NT, using Apache 1.3.3. When trying to get to Zope with the URL: http://localhost/cgi-bin/Zope.exe/manage I get the following message: The resource you requested is temporarily unavailable - please try again later. So I wander over to the troubleshooting guide on the Zope web page, and happily find this error is mentioned. Unfortunately, the text there applies to Unix mostly (which I'm unfortunately not able to use for this project), and doesn't seem to help with my NT problem. When I go to the Services, Zope is in the listing. It isn't Started, though, and when I try to start it it gives the following error: Error 0002: The system cannot find the file specified. I'm assuming the Zope.exe in the cgi-bin dir tries to start the Zope service when first called, but it fails, and this produces the Service not available message? As adviced by the troubleshooting doc, I looked at the source of this page for info on the error. Here it is: Pipe connect failed The troubleshooting doc mentioned trying to start the file pcgifile.py to test things. This file doesn't appear to be included by the Win32 binary installation of Zope (nor the subdir Util under pcgi the doc mentions it should be in). The doc says this: On Windows NT platforms, check the event log under "Application Log" for error information. I'm a new to NT and Zope, and I couldn't find this. Where can I find Application Log? Note that I'm a poor newbie! I'm new to Zope, Apache, and NT (but not to Python). I did get Apache working as a service on NT though, and I got the cgi-bin directory configured, I think (otherwise I wouldn't see this message). I also previously got Zope working on a Win95 box, with Zope's built-in web server. Newbie now; hopefully getting up to speed quickly! I hope someone can help me with this problem. Thanks for your attention, and regards, Martijn

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RE: [Zope] - Serving Zope...
by Jeff Bauer 16 Dec '98

16 Dec '98

LD Landis writes: > Well... I'd like to be able to run both a native Zope > and an Apache at the same time, having the one connected > to port 80 passing off requests to the other (daisy-chain > like) before yielding a 404... or with "active termination", > let the last guy on the daisy-chain be responsible for > returning the 404 as needed. > > This may already be in the cards... but I don't know how > to do it. More likely "real tricky"... We need an http-proxy written in python. I'm interested in this even for reasons independent of Zope(*). I think it was Michael Scharf who requested such a beast on comp.lang.python. My intuition tells me that Andreas Kostyrka would also find it useful, if he hasn't built one already <wink>. (*) Let's save civilization -- filter out Javascript, animated gifs, and a half dozen other bad ideas. An http-proxy could be built with: 1) Threaded python 2) Medusa 3) A minimist asynch select-style server (Medusa on Valium) Item #1 would be limited to versions of Python with thread support. I like the idea of extending Medusa to support http-proxy (excuse my ignorance if it already does) but I'm unclear about Medusa's current status. Has it gone open source, or is its use restricted to Zope? If the former, adding http-proxy capability to Medusa might be the best approach. Best regards, Jeff Bauer Rubicon, Inc.

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RE: [Zope] - Serving Zope...
by Jeff Bauer 16 Dec '98

16 Dec '98

AS=Andy Smith AK=Andy Kuchling AS>> With ZopeHTTPServer supplied as part of Zope anyway, AS>> should support for Apache be that high a priority? AK> Yes, it should. I doubt that ZopeHTTPServer.py will AK> support SSL at the same level as a commercial Apache AK> variant such as Stronghold. For commerce applications, AK> the security aspect is important I'd like to add that I think there's a commercial opportunity for a company that wishes to "harden" Zope's security. For Zope to realized it's potential as an ORB, HTTP-RPC, or whatever you want to call it, we need SSL-enabled clients to work within the Zope framework. Digital Creations, for instance, could sell certificates, provide consulting, etc., if this were an area they desired to enter commercially. A company in a country not governed by U.S. ITAR restrictions might even do better. AS>> Does the average Zoper actually use the preconfigured AS>> Apache ... or does he/she use the installation to AS>> figure out how to configure an existing server. AK> Configure an existing server; I don't think I'll use AK> ZopeHTTPServer except for the most trivial testing and AK> experimentation. I think the main reason we've seen a pre-configured apache distributed with Zope is to provide an existence proof that Zope can work with Apache's authorization scheme. Since mod_rewrite isn't compiled in by default in Apache (and setting it up can be a hassle) Digital Creations wanted to have something work out of the box. I don't believe someone can run an Apache server for very long without learning about Apache. Many of the problems we're seeing on the list (and privately) are really Apache issues and have nothing to do specifically with Zope. AS>> How can pcgi be used to best effect? Would an apache AS>> mod_pcgi be useful? AK> Probably, though I don't know how high the traffic AK> would have to be before the time to execute the AK> pcgi-wrapper becomes a significant drain. I suspect AK> this isn't a high priority at the moment, because few AK> people will do very high-traffic sites with Zope AK> until they're familiar with the technology. That AK> should make for some delay before a mod_pcgi is needed. I don't have the numbers, but Digital Creations staff can attest that pcgi-wrapper scales well on Unix. Much less so on Win32. Some specific issues regarding mod_pcgi: 1. Should pcgi be in the process management business? There was some earlier discussion about this on the Bobo list. It may be worth reaching some decisions before putting mod_pcgi into service. 2. Server-specific issues. One of the neat things about pcgi is its server independence. A mod_pcgi module should preserve feature parity with pcgi-wrapper. 3. Authorization. A mod_pcgi module would probably eliminate most of the current authorization/mod_rewrite issues with Apache. This is probably the single most useful feature mod_pcgi has to offer, far ahead of any performance gains (which nobody has complained about anyway, AFAIK). Magnus Lie Hetland has also reminded me that we face certain possible compromises here too, between security and usability. 4. Maintainability. Another neat thing about pcgi-wrapper is that it's simple to get into and figure out what's going on. It doesn't matter that it's basically brain dead, leaks memory like a sieve, and can only guess when a process is ready for a connection. The reason that it (usually) doesn't matter is that pcgi-wrapper simply works (when it fails to function, its failure is not because of the reasons above) and it's easy to debug. Add some intelligence to pcgi-wrapper and make it an Apache extension, and you have a much more difficult time figuring out what's going on or how to go about fixing it. I think mod_pcgi is a good idea. It would be nice to have pcgi out of the process management business before mod_pcgi gets built, but there's nothing to say we have to wait. And I think for pcgi to get out of the process management business ... nah, let's save it for another thread. Best regards, Jeff Bauer Rubicon, Inc.

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RE: [Zope] - Re: Zope - Alternate authentication mechanisms
by Brian Lloyd 15 Dec '98

15 Dec '98

> Thanks for your quick response. This leads me to another question. > What (is|will be) the process for submitting code for > possible inclusion in Zope? > I realize it is Zope is an infant in the opensource world. > Perhaps a roadmap > on the Zope site would be appropriate. OpenLDAP has done > something similar. > This would allow for Digital Creations to steer the direction > of Zope while giving > outside developers things to work on. > > cef We are working out these very issues as we speak ;^) We hope to have a roadmap up on the site this week. Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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- Zope, DTML and XML
by Paul Prescod 15 Dec '98

15 Dec '98

Of course Zope must eventually move into the XML world. Zope needs to do templates. XSL also does templates. In fact templates are almost as central to XSL as they are to Zope. I would suggest that Zope should use XSL template syntax for DTML templates as far as is possible. In fact, maybe when XSL becomes popular enough, it might make sense to describe the interaction between Zope and the Python runtime in terms of XML transformations. That's for the future, though. In the meantime, the point is that the template syntax should be the same. Here are the details from the current XSL spec: "The value of an attribute of a literal result element is interpreted as an attribute value template: it can contain string expressions contained in curly braces ({})." "Within a template, the xsl:value-of element can be used to compute generated text, for example by extracting text from the source tree or by inserting the value of a string constant. The xsl:value-of element does this with a string expression that is specified as the value of the expr attribute. String expressions can also be used inside attribute values of literal result elements by enclosing the string expression in curly brace ({})." "The xsl:value-of element is replaced by the value of the string expression specified by the expr attribute. The expr attribute is required." "e.g. <xsl:value-of expr="attribute(first-name)"/>" "In an attribute value that is interpreted as an attribute value template, such as an attribute of a literal result element, string expressions can be used by surrounding the string expression with curly braces ({}). The attribute value template is instantiated by replacing the string expression together with surrounding curly braces by the value of the string expression. The following example creates an IMG result element from a photograph element in the source; the value of the SRC attribute of the IMG element is computed from the value of the image-dir constant and the content of the href child of the photograph element; the value of the WIDTH attribute of the IMG element is computed from the value of the the width attribute of the size child of the photograph element: <xsl:define-constant name="image-dir" value="/images"/> <xsl:template match="photograph"> <IMG SRC="{constant(image-dir)}/{href}" WIDTH="{size/attribute(width)}"/> </xsl:template> With this source <photograph> <href>headquarters.jpg</href> <size width="300"/> </photograph> the result would be <IMG SRC="/images/headquarters.jpg" WIDTH="300"/> When an attribute value template is instantiated, a double left or right curly brace outside a string expression will be replaced by a single curly brace. It is an error if a right curly brace occurs in an attribute value template outside a string expression without being followed by a second right curly brace; an XSL processor may signal the error or recover by treating the right curly brace as if it had been doubled. A right curly brace inside an AttributeValue in a string expression is not recognized as terminating the string expression." http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-xsl Paul Prescod - ISOGEN Consulting Engineer speaking for only himself http://itrc.uwaterloo.ca/~papresco "Sports utility vehicles are gated communities on wheels" - Anon

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