December 1999 - Zope

ZRTChat
by Robin Becker 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

I installed this and added a chat item, but when I try to use it I get errors about user not being defined. Anyone got this going? -- Robin Becker

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How to include html pages with dtml-var
by Kulpinski, Dejan 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

Hello, Is is possible (and obviously how) to include html pages from other websites using dtml-var ? For example, I would like to include mapquest map into my page without providing explicit link... Thanx, Dejan Kulpinski

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reality check
by Jonothan Farr 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

I thought this forward would be of interest to the DC folks and the community at large. -jfarr > > Zope has some of the worst documentation I have ever encountered. I > paged through it for a while and was unable to get to any actual > information, just marketing-esque hype. I turned the investigation > over to my typically very fast research guy, figuring maybe I just had > the wrong set of docs or something; after learning Python and spending > several solid weeks of trying to figure out how to get it to update > objects in Oracle (vs. just view them), he gave up on it; we aren't > going to use it. > > It's a good idea, and I hear only good things about Python, but Zope > is Just Not There Yet. > > YMMV, > Brenda

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Newbie confusion
by Barbara Pfieffer 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

I just downloaded Zope and I'm really excited about what I want to do with it. Here's the problem, when I start Zope, it keeps forcing me to connect to the Net. (I'm running Win98, BTW). Is there any way to run ZServer without being connected to the net? And how easy is it to transfer Zope files created on a Windows machine to a Solaris website? Or am I stuck hanging online all the time I'm working with Zope? Thanks in advance! Barbara --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.lifetimelearningbooks.com Increase your Knowledge, Enrich your life All the Great Books, All the Time This week's special "The Prince" ---------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [Zope] How to get ZServer to do referrer logging?
by Patrick Phalen 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

[Bruce Perens, on Sat, 11 Dec 1999] :: Oops. Not yet. I either have to wait for Debian to package it, or I have :: to package it myself. Ummm ... package all of Zope 2.1., right? Not just ZServer? Looks like HTTPServer.py imports selected chunks of /medusa/http_server.py, but sets up a Common Log format (user-agent and referer) out of ZLog (logged to /var/Z2log). Might be tricky to piecemeal it.

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How to get ZServer to do referrer logging?
by bruce＠perens.com 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

Does anyone have a patch to get ZServer to do referrer logging? Thanks Bruce

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Re: [Zope] Ever seen this problem?
by Doug McNaught 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

"Eric W. Sink" <eric(a)sourcegear.com> writes: > We have been chasing a problem with our Zope server. Comments from > others here on the mailing list have given me the impression that > others might be facing the same quandry. > > Basically, the problem is that Zope intermittently "hangs". [detailed descriptions snipped] One thing that I've often find helpful for debugging (in general, not that I've had to do it for Zope yet) is to run strace/truss against your Zope process, then try to make it hang. If you can get it to hang, See what the last system call made was, which might give you an idea of where the hang is occurring. Since you say Zope isn't 'spinning', it's likely that it's blocked in a system call that isn't returning for some reason. The above procedure might help track it down. To make things simpler, you might want to crank the number of server threads down to 1 while you're debugging, though this might eliminate or mask the hang problem. -Doug -- Doug McNaught doug(a)mcnaught.org http://www.mcnaught.org/~doug

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BUG? adding image cannot give correct content type
by Li Dongfeng 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

In a Zope 2.1.0b2 installation, using the manage screen to add a jpeg file is successful, can be viewed with the "View" tab, but the content type is set to application/x-unknown-content-type-WTImage.Document I didn't encounter this problem in Zope 2.0.1.

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Re: reality check - The REAL issue
by Brian Salisbury 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

Everyone is talking about the difficulty in using Zope and how good Docs would help. I believe, in part, documentation is just masking part of the problem. Zope is way-to-difficult to use. If you're a programmer, you can trudge through and figure out how Zope works. But I'm not a programmer. I don't know what's going on at the code-level, and frankly, I don't want to have to know. If Zope is to truly adopt a wide user base, it's got to be easy enough that the average user and install and deploy Zope. Right now, it's just to complicated for me use. I've got a business to run, I don't have time to mess around with the particulars. Just a thought, Brian

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Re: [Zope] Re: reality check - The REAL issue
by Craig P Avnit 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, you wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Craig P Avnit <craig(a)londonplaza.co.uk> > To: <zope(a)zope.org> > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 4:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Zope] Re: reality check - The REAL issue > > > > On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, you wrote: > > > Everyone is talking about the difficulty in using Zope and how good Docs > > > would help. I believe, in part, documentation is just masking part of > > > the problem. Zope is way-to-difficult to use. If you're a programmer, > > > you can trudge through and figure out how Zope works. But I'm not a > > > programmer. > > I have yet to see any non programmer deploy a cold fusion, vignette, or > any > > other application server solution. Zope is not nearly as difficult to > > implement as a java servlet based solution. > > > > You will always lose functionality when implementing ease of use in a > > development environment. > > Isn't that the definition of a 'bad' development enviroment. > Are you trying to tell me that Cold Fusion, ASP and Websphere are good because they are easy to use. The problem with developers on those platforms and most windows developers, are that they code the most horrificaly bloated application known to man. Cold Fusion doesn't come close to Zope and Python in functionality and rapid development. > > > > > I don't know what's going on at the code-level, and > > > frankly, I don't want to have to know. If Zope is to truly adopt a wide > > > user base, it's got to be easy enough that the average user and install > > > and deploy Zope. Right now, it's just to complicated for me use. I've > > > got a business to run, I don't have time to mess around with the > > > particulars. > > > > > > > That is why there are people out there like the fine folks at DC, who can > > concentrate on supplying you with the functionality you need to allow you > to > > concentrate on your business. > > I thought the whole idea behind open-source was that there is > a critical mass of users that has to be reached for the flow on > benefits. Those benefits won't arise if the open-source application > isn't competitive, it won't be competitive if it isn't easy to use and > it certainly won't get a critical mass if there is an understanding > that 'best' practice, performance and use are not the watch words. > I agree, but the point a click mentality doesn't help either. You don't use linux because you are in a desktop environment, if windows is so good show me an ISP that trusts there operations to it, I don't. Unix and linux strengths lie in the server arena at the moment. I run a linux box at home, full printer access and all the Destop applications I need. I don't have 5 % of the problems the average window user has. > One reason I haven't move to linux is that it is still not as easy to > use as windows, I just don't want to learn the geekisms. Now to > add positively to this to debate, what Zope really needs is a glossary > of terms, then a one page overview of all components that has > been 'tested' against a panel of average windows users (the > industrial standard), if they can understand it anyone that > matters can. ;-). > Windows are the industry standard for home PC's and desktop, not mission critical high end apps, and distributed computing. Unix is the standard here. I agree that zope does need to be easier to use, and the docs can be improved, but I cannot agree with wanting to aspire to windows mediocrity, or heaven forbid that windows users are the only ones who matter. Most organisations run in spite of windows not because of it. > > Could anyone point me to a one-page description of > a product, where it resides, what it can do for me and > how it interrelates with the other Zope components. > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought, > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > > No cross posts or HTML encoding! > > > (Related lists - > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > -- > > Craig P Avnit > > Director > > London Plaza Ltd > > Tel: +44 (0)7000 64-5768 > > Fax: +44 (0)7000 64-5769 > > http://www.londonplaza.co.uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > No cross posts or HTML encoding! > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > -- Craig P Avnit Director London Plaza Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7000 64-5768 Fax: +44 (0)7000 64-5769 http://www.londonplaza.co.uk

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