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Re: What causes the community to stall so often?
by Terry Hancock 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

(I can't believe this thread is still going, but what the hey ... here's my 2 cents, I can hope it'll have some impact) I think the reason that Zope documentation is poor, and in particular why Zope developers don't write much is because they would much rather add features than fix bugs and oversights in their earlier work (or even think about them). Take ZPT. *Another* language? Zope already maintains one and depends heavily on another. They themselves declare DTML a failure, but they've got it all right this time? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!" ;) And ZPT is completely different, doesn't work in all the same places, and is (IMHO) ridiculously cumbersome and non-intuitive. Maybe I haven't given it a fair review yet, but the reality is, I just don't have time for it. Certainly it is not a natural extension to DTML, nor a replacement for it. Why not just fix DTML so it isn't so ridiculously hard to document and use? Consider just a couple of really obvious problems (dozens of more subtle problems can no doubt be unearthed): GET RID OF THE STUPID DASHES! "sequence-item" -- Oh come on! Where'd that come from? Other languages (including Python), use a "." for this kind of purpose (e.g. why not represent "sequence" as a Python class with "item", "index" attributes and/or "odd()" "even()" methods). That would probably make the most sense. Barring that, why not simply substitute "_" for "-". Then at least, we could use: sequence_item.absolute_url() (for example), instead of the ridiculous work-around: _.getitem('sequence-item').absolute_url() "_." -- Why do we have this? In a Python script we use builtins as builtins, now they're all methods of this mysterious object. Why? And is it REALLY that hard to fix? Actually namespaces in Zope are altogether a mess. I'm not sure I even understand them now, but it seems to me that some simplification may be in order. DTML would be SOOOO much easier to understand (and explain) if it only made sense to begin with. (It's also notable that the above criticisms are actually of the Python API which exists inside DTML expressions. The worst criticism of this is that it is inconsistent with the Python API in Python Scripts). And I emphasize that DTML is actually a very good concept -- DTML is like a rough sketch of a good idea. The problem is that it needs to be redrafted to capture that idea better. I did recently discover a rationalization which I applaud: Previously, the filesize of Image and File types was acquired from the "getSize()" method, while DTML Documents and Methods used "get_size()". In Zope 2.4.3, both methods are available for both sets of classes, though I haven't figured out which is preferred (the rationalization is not reported in the Zope 2.5 API online at www.zope.org) Zope is a good thing already. It doesn't need more junk. What it needs is a whole lot of straightening up. And if it were straightened up, it'd be a whole lot easier for people like me, who *like* to write, to write documentation for it. Right now I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole! In short, the documentation is poor, because even the people who would write it can't figure Zope out. Contrast with how carefully the Python syntax options are reviewed (not just by Python developers, but by Python programmers worldwide) before they allow additions. That kind of conservativism can be frustrating, but it also keeps the API pretty clear of debris, and makes the way a lot easier for experienced and new developers alike. Zope developers obviously appreciate this, or they wouldn't have developed in Python to begin with, so why not apply it to Zope? What I'm waiting for is the day when *www.zope.org* will print this message that www.python.org has had (e.g. on the 2.1.2 release page) for some time: "we've been very careful to fix only bugs and not add new features." That is such a warm feeling! I wish I could feel that way about Zope. IMHO, of course, Terry -- ------------------------------------------------------ Terry Hancock hancock(a)anansispaceworks.com Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com P.O. Box 60583 Pasadena, CA 91116-6583 ------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [Zope] ftp and virtual hosting question
by Richard Barrett 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

At 13:44 12/03/2002 -0500, Jiann-Ming Su wrote: >On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Richard Barrett wrote: > > > Are you asking whether standard Zope can accept an FTP login and, > depending > > on the user ID presented, automatically do an FTP cd to the user's "home" > > folder, having determined where that is by computation from which acl_user > > folder their user ID is defined in? > > > >Yes, that's what I'm asking. What's the alternative for doing a wholesale >upload? Is WebDAV the solution? The database being handled by Zope is a tree rooted at '/'. From your earlier posts you have sub-trees below the root each of which constitutes a web site. When delivering data to users via HTTP, you are using Apache Proxypass/RewriteRule with Zope's the Virtual Host Monster to give the appearance of multiple separate web sites. However, viewed through Zope direct interfaces i.e. through the TCP interfaces it provides, regardless of protocol, be it HTTP, FTP or WebDAV, the fact that the 'virtual web sites' all exist within a common hierarchical structure cannot be totally hidden. So the answer to the question is No, not through Zope's direct interfaces. But bearing in mind what you said previously the effects of this can be mitigated. At 10:21 12/03/2002 -0500, Jiann-Ming Su wrote: >That is, if I have an acl_uers/ folder in /VirtualHost/Host1, how do I >get a defined user for Host1 to ftp directly into /VirtualHost/Host1? > >Right now, I have to authenticate through the acl_users/ in the root folder, >which gives me access to a bunch of other folders as well. You may be able to achieve part of what you want to do as follows : 1. You do not have to put have all the user ids declared in acl_users in the root '/' folder. 2. You can declare the user ids, per virtual host, in acl_users within each virtual host's 'root' folder as per the following example layout. /--| |--hosta--| | |--vhost1--| | | |--acl_users | | | | | | |--vhost2--| | | |--acl_users | | | 3. Remove the 'FTP Access' privilege for everybody except role Manager from '/' and 'hosts'. 4. Assign your users the local role of Member for the 'home' virtual host folder. 5. Give the Member role 'FTP Access' privilege for each of the virtual host folder. 6. With this set up each user can FTP login and then FTP cd to their 'home' virtual host folder. 7. The fact that the user do not have 'FTP Access' privilege over '/' folder, indeed that their user id doesn't exist at the root folder level doesn't prevent them FTP logging in. 8. The user's can successfully FTP cd to their 'home' virtual host folder having logged in but will be prevented from FTP cd'ing to any other virtual host folder. 9. Users cannot discover by examination the content of intermediate folders between '/' and their 'home' virtual host folder as they cannot FTP cd to these intermediate folders or perform FTP ls operations on them. 10. The downside is that the users have to know the path to their 'home' virtual host folder from '/'. How well this will work from the user standpoint depends to some extent on the FTP access tools the user chooses. a. I find that with this arrangement I can access and upload directory trees and their contents using IE5 under Win2K using a ftp scheme URLs of the form ftp://<userid>:<passwd>@wickwar.ftel.co.uk:8021/hosts/vhost1/. But note the need to embed the user id and password in the URL. You do not get a prompt for credentials with ftp scheme URLs like you do with http scheme URLs. You have to present them as part of the URL. This is nasty in that someone looking over your shoulder can see them on the screen on they are 'visible' un-encrypted in transit between your browser and the server to any intermediate proxies. In the worst case they might even appear in some logs. b. WS_FTP works OK as long as the the Remote Site Folder for the connection is preset to the correct value. Otherwise, WS_FTP tries to list the folder it first gets to: typically '/'. This fails if the user doesn't have 'FTP Access' permissions and WS_FTP then regards the connection attempt as having failed. Security should be better in that this is proper connection oriented working and the credentials are only exposed at login time. c. Linux command line FTP presents no particular problems in use. As for WebDAV, I cannot say how this would work as I'm not familiar with using it. Hope this helps your thinking on the topic. >-- >Jiann-Ming Su jsu2(a)emory.edu 404-712-2603 >Development Team Systems Administrator >General Libraries Systems Division

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Re: [Zope] Re: Dear Listowner...
by Stephan Goeldi 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

>Hmm, so you're tyring to tell us humble Winblows lusers that we are not as >technical as you oh so powerful and experienced *nix/TOS/AmigaOS or >whatever >it is you use these days users. yes. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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Remove ZEO
by Gilles Durys 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

Hi, I got here a zope installation with zeo that I didn't install myself. My boss asked me to remove zeo so that zope runs on its own. I have no experience with zeo so I'm asking you if: 1. is this possible ? 2. is this easily done ? Thanks -- Gilles Durys

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Re: [Zope] Inserting values into db - problems
by Harry Wilkinson 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

Well the first thing I notice is that you have 'description' in there twice. I don't know if that's the problem you're encountering now, but it could be a bad thing. Harry > Hi all, > > Part of a site I'm working on needs to be able to insert job numbers into a > database. I'm using PostgreSQL as the backend and psycopg as the connecter. > I am able to select values from the database without problems. However, I > can insert anything. > > I have a dtml document that prompts for values called addJobNumber. This > has an action of another dtml document named commitJob. commitJob has a > dtml-call to insert_job which is a Z SQL method. > > The Z SQL method is as follows: > > insert into y8 values( > now(), > now(), > <dtml-sqlvar client type="string"> > <dtml-sqlvar description type="string">, > <dtml-sqlvar product type="string">, > nextval('y8_number'), > <dtml-sqlvar description type="string">, > <dtml-sqlvar client_job_number type="string">, > <dtml-sqlvar client_po_number type="string">, > <dtml-sqlvar client_contact type="string">, > <dtml-sqlvar tech_contact type="string">, > <dtml-sqlvar job_close_date type="string"> > ) > > When I try this, I get an error saying : > > Missing input variable, client > > > Traceback (innermost last): > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 150, in > publish_module > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 114, in > publish > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 158, in > zpublisher_exception_hook > (Object: localhost) > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 98, in > publish File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 88, in > mapply (Object: commitJob) > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 39, in > call_object > (Object: commitJob) > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/OFS/DTMLDocument.py, line 127, in > __call__ (Object: commitJob) > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py, line 473, > in __call__ > (Object: commitJob) > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/Shared/DC/ZRDB/DA.py, line 414, in > __call__ > (Object: insert_job) > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py, line 473, > in __call__ > (Object: <string>) > File /usr/local/zope/lib/python/Shared/DC/ZRDB/sqlvar.py, line 99, in > render > (Object: client) > Missing Input: (see above) > > If I remove the dtml-call in the commitJob document and just print each > value using > <dtml-var client><br><br> > All values print as expected (as entered on the previous form) > > Is there anything obvious that I'm missing here that could be causing this > problem ? > > TIA,

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Re: [Zope] stdin.read() in Python script
by Andy McKay 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

Oop sorry, just noticed you said Python Script in that case the equivalent is: # 'data' is the key of the posted data we want data = context.REQUEST.get('data', None) if data is not None: do something Having a method that just prints out the REQUEST variables is always useful for debugging anyway ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy McKay" <andy(a)agmweb.ca> To: "Janez Jere" <janez.jere(a)void.si>; <zope(a)zope.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] stdin.read() in Python script > All data posted to Zope is placed in the REQUEST object. Make a DTML Method > with the content <dtml-var REQUEST> and view the page. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janez Jere" <janez.jere(a)void.si> > To: <zope(a)zope.org> > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:29 PM > Subject: [Zope] stdin.read() in Python script > > > > Hi, > > I was adviced in comp.lang.python that I have a problem for this mailing > > list: > > > > Could you help me port my simple cgi to zope pathon script. Problem > > which I am unable to solve is reading posted raw data (legacy client > > posts a xml document to my cgi and expects a result). I tried very hard > > to find a solution, in mean time i wrote script with mod_python, which > > works well, but I need to run it fast in app server. > > > > Among all my attempts the closest solutions are: > > request.get(BODY) # BODYFILE a > > and > > request.stdin.read() # but it is not allowed to access read method. > > > > Thanks, janez > > > > # CGI script and test > > import sys, os > > if len(sys.argv) == 1: > > print 'Content-Type: text/plain' > > print > > > > length = os.environ['CONTENT_LENGTH'] > > > > #print 'length', length > > print repr(sys.stdin.read(int(length))) # !!! how to read posted data > !!! > > > > else: > > # test echo > > url = sys.argv[1] > > import urllib2 as w > > > > x= w.urlopen(url, 'abc '*300) > > print 'read(%s):\n' % url, x.read() > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > >

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Folder Size.
by Jason C. Leach 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

hi, How can I check the size of a folder and all of its contents ( including sub-folders); so I guess I mean parent object and all child objects. j. -- ...................... ..... Jason C. Leach .. PGP/GPG Public key at http://www.keyserver.net/ Key ID: 1CF6DA85

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Different 'managers'
by Dennis Gearon 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

Can different managers be created by a 'super manager'? I would be looking to have a manager have access only in certain places on the content/database/template trees, and below of course. Anything above that would be the super user/manager. How fine grained can the access be set up for roles in the site structure? -- If You want to buy computer parts, see the reviews at: http://www.cnet.com/ **OR EVEN BETTER COMPILATIONS**!! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/userreviews/products/

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invalid token error
by Manish Sharma 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

I want to upload some files in zope using load_site.py While running the command in python i m getting the error like Syntex error : invalid token the command statement is >>> python .\load_site.py -u manish:manishkumar -D http:localhost:8080/test/ /tests/ here test is a folder created in zope manager and tests is come with Load_site kit havinf three .htm files. i tried wxLoadSite.py through python >>> python .\wxLoadSite.py it also giving the same error of invalid token please tell me the solution...... manish --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

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stdin.read() in Python script
by Janez Jere 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

Hi, I was adviced in comp.lang.python that I have a problem for this mailing list: Could you help me port my simple cgi to zope pathon script. Problem which I am unable to solve is reading posted raw data (legacy client posts a xml document to my cgi and expects a result). I tried very hard to find a solution, in mean time i wrote script with mod_python, which works well, but I need to run it fast in app server. Among all my attempts the closest solutions are: request.get(BODY) # BODYFILE a and request.stdin.read() # but it is not allowed to access read method. Thanks, janez # CGI script and test import sys, os if len(sys.argv) == 1: print 'Content-Type: text/plain' print length = os.environ['CONTENT_LENGTH'] #print 'length', length print repr(sys.stdin.read(int(length))) # !!! how to read posted data !!! else: # test echo url = sys.argv[1] import urllib2 as w x= w.urlopen(url, 'abc '*300) print 'read(%s):\n' % url, x.read()

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