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Kebas Data refresh problem
by Marcus Schopen 22 May '01

22 May '01

Hi there, have a problem with refreshing time. I set it to 3600, but after an hour nothing has changed. ZOPE did not build up a connection to the remote site to grab the new data. Thank you Marcus _______________________________________ (0> Marcus Schopen //\ Bielefeld, Germany V_/_ _______________________________________ Live as variously as possible

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bizzarre management behaviour: can't edit ZClass methods
by Darran Edmundson 22 May '01

22 May '01

I've encountered a bizarre error. I was editing my site from home this morning without problem. Here at work, however, I'm getting key errors for *all* manage_workspace links on DTML methods in my Products hierarchy. (I.e., imagine creating a ZClass and then trying to edit the index_html method, only to get a KeyError on some property this definitely exists in a property sheet.) Note, I'm just trying to display the DTML source code, not have Zope interpret it. It's as if manage_workspace is showing the wrong view, trying to render the DTML rather than show the method source. Here's an example traceback: Error Type: KeyError Error Value: FirstName Traceback (innermost last): File /opt/zope/Zope-2.3.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 223, in publish_module File /opt/zope/Zope-2.3.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 187, in publish File /opt/zope/Zope-2.3.1/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: Traversable) File /opt/zope/Zope-2.3.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 171, in publish File /opt/zope/Zope-2.3.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160, in mapply (Object: link) File /opt/zope/Zope-2.3.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 112, in call_object (Object: link) File /opt/zope/Zope-2.3.1/lib/python/OFS/DTMLMethod.py, line 189, in __call__ (Object: link) File /opt/zope/Zope-2.3.1/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py, line 538, in __call__ (Object: link) KeyError: (see above) I won't know until this evening if my home machine is now displaying the same behaviour - or if it's something wrong with IE5 under Win2000. Any ideas? Cheers, Darran.

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RE: [Zope] Prerequisites for a desktop IDE, or any desktop app w/ Zope
by sean.upton＠uniontrib.com 22 May '01

22 May '01

I agree on the 'view' concept for classes versus the traditional UML / IDE integration concepts... Implementing a ZEO client core for a front-end GUI toolkit does make more sense; it would perform better, have full access to the server, and still be relatively x-platform (Win/Unix/MacOSX). I still have some questions: - Wouldn't there be an advantage to having software products be installed on the server (instead of a really FAT client)? - By going the ZEO client route, don't you lose a lot of the things you would get with Zope like the security model? Or would this be different? - The level of complexity there to develop such a thing grows quite a bit, though, especially for those of us who remain ignorant (and perhaps a bit fearful ;) ) of what is really running underneath the hood when it comes to the ODB and ZEO... XMLRPC has both the advantage and disadvantage of simplicity, for whatever that is worth... Sean -----Original Message----- From: Michel Pelletier [mailto:michel@digicool.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 3:53 PM To: sean.upton(a)uniontrib.com Cc: zope(a)zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] Prerequisites for a desktop IDE, or any desktop app w/ Zope On Mon, 21 May 2001 sean.upton(a)uniontrib.com wrote: > 4. I'm not sure I would pay for an IDE versus using traditional tools, but I > WOULD PAY FOR CASE TOOL INTEGRATION. I want forward/reverse engineering > from UML; this would require the ability to have the CASE tool plugin I'm not sure how important a J-together like IDE would pay off in this respect, but I would love to see a UML-ish like visualization tool that is totally isomorphic to python. The object's under the hood are all python, the visualization is just a 'view', no need to go back and forth. Changing the code or run time object model changes the visualization immediately. > Zope, via XML-RPC, could be a very good platform for creating an extensible > toolkit for desktop access to Zope, wrapping XML-RPC calls to Zope machinery > to do certain tasks. XMLRPC could do this, but I'm afraid it would be seriously limited. XMLRPC is very useful, but it does not map as well as it could onto the python object model. I would prefer to see a GUI client running in the same process space as a ZEO client, this way the GUI client could do everything that Zope could do and re-use alot of the existing interfaces (like security, acquisition, script objects, etc). The upshot of xmlrpc is that you could write front-ends in various languages and platforms. > I'm currently doing a bit of playing around with wxPython, which reminds me > a lot of my days programming with the Borland OWL class libraries, so I > might be partial to such a solution using wxPython instead of tkinter (tcl > interpreter - blech! motif-style widgets - yuck!). An IDE built with a > decent (modern) widget set / UI class library, with extended toolkit > functions, like data-bound controls, might make for an interesting > user-extensible means of creating custom-tweaked IDEs, not to mention other > desktop software that accesses Zope... wxPython is indeed very cool. > In addition to an IDE, I want to be able to have some good guidelines and > documentation for standardized UML in Zope, so that when I share designs > with colleagues, I don't have to use a ridiculous amount of my own flavor of > stereotypes, just because I don't know any better. Once I have that, I want > CASE->CODE->CASE tools with an existing tool (even if it is a Visio > extension hacked with VBscript), blech. it would take you just as long to hack one up with xwPython and have a real object model underneath and it would be x-platform. -Michel

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simple DTML/namespace question: changing existing values in a method
by darran.edmundson＠anu.edu.au 21 May '01

21 May '01

Can someone offer a means of accomplishing the following: <dtml-var header> <dtml-var foo> <dtml-if condition> <dtml-call "_.namespace(foo='newvalue')"> </dtml-if> .. <dtml-var foo> .. <dtml-var footer> In this DTML method, if condition is true, I'd like to modify foo's value for the rest of the code that follows. Seems easy enough ... As always, any help is much appreciated. Cheers, Darran. --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/

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Zope (ZCatalog) & international characters on Windows
by cj01＠poczta.onet.pl 21 May '01

21 May '01

Hi, All! I'm succesfully using Zope and ZCatalog with -L pl_PL option on RedHat Linux, but I have problem with Windows. If I know Windows (95,98,NT,2000) doesn't support locales (it have its own localization options). When I'm trying to use -L option on Windows (with Zope 2.3.0) it reports: ----------------------------------------------------- The specified locale is not supported by your system. See your operating system documentation for more information on locale support. ----------------------------------------------------- I need localization support in order to correctly catalog my Z Object's in Polish. Thanks, for any help. Cezary Jurach -- 26 maja - Dzien Matki. Wygraj kwiaty dla swojej Mamy! Do rozdania 75 bukietow z dostawa i zyczeniami. [ http://zakupy.onet.pl/prezenty.asp?k=7 ]

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passing object from dtml to python script
by Luby Liao 21 May '01

21 May '01

Is it possible to pass objects in a dtml, such as a row of the result set of a sql query, into a python script used as a form handler? As an example, on line 9, 'complete_or_not' is a python script with one argument. I would like to pass an object x (line 2) into the script. But the syntax of line 9 is incorrect. I could effectively pass x in using hidden fields. But I hope I can avoid that. Any help is greatly appreciated. cheers, Luby 1 <dtml-if email> 2 <dtml-let x=emailSearch> 3 <dtml-if "_.len(x)==1"> 4 <dtml-in x> 5 If you are <dtml-var firstname> <dtml-var lastname>, please 6 proceed to complete the registration, by clicking the 7 'complete' button. Otherwise, click the 'not me' 8 button. 9 <FORM METHOD="POST" ACTION="complete_or_not(x)>" NAME="complete" onSubmit="return verifyInput()"> 10 <TABLE border="0" cellpadding="0"><TR><TD align="right"> 11 <INPUT TYPE="submit" NAME="complete" VALUE="Complete"></TD><TD align="right"> 12 <INPUT TYPE="submit" NAME="not_me" VALUE="Not Me"></TD></TR> 13 </TABLE> 14 </FORM> 15 </dtml-in> 16 </dtml-if> 17 </dtml-let> 18 </dtml-if> -- Luby Liao, Department of Math/CS, University of San Diego, San Diego, CA 92110 (619)260-4021(O), (619)452-7644(H), (619)260-4293(fax) 'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogroves And the mome raths outgrabe -- L.C.

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IMAP Web Interface
by Rahsheen Porter 21 May '01

21 May '01

I'm running Courier IMAP on the same server as Zope. The mail is stored in Maildir mailboxes. I'm trying to find a suitable Web Interface for this as I am unable to check my mail from work because of the restrictive firewall. Any suggestions? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Zope] Postgres adapters
by Federico Di Gregorio 21 May '01

21 May '01

> Can anyone comment on past experiences with various postgres adapters? I am > using the latest PoPy (201) and have just recently noticed psychopg. Is it > better, faster, more reliable or any of the above? obviously yes. but look at my email address and at psycopg hosting site before giving too much weight to my words... :) more seriously, psycopg is actively developed (i.e., we usually fix bugs in 2-3 days and release a new version about 24h afterwards) and we are really commited to DB-API compliance. what can i say apart from give psyco a try? http://initd.org/Software/psycopg/ ciao, federico -- Federico Di Gregorio MIXAD LIVE Chief of Research & Technology fog(a)mixadlive.com Debian GNU/Linux Developer & Italian Press Contact fog(a)debian.org A short story: I want you. I love you. I'll miss you. -- Me

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RE: [Zope] xmlrpc slowness
by Albert Langer 21 May '01

21 May '01

[Shilad] The new release is up on sourceforge. It should be compatible with the Zope client/server it was tested against. It is at: http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/py-xmlrpc Let me know how it goes. I'm curious to see what kind of speed increase you see. My guess is that the implementation at the other xmlrpc end will be the bottle-neck pretty soon. [Albert] Thanks *very* much for this!!! 1000 xml-rpc calls per second with commodity hardware sounds pretty attractive! I've had to just pass it on to a friend to checkout at the moment, but will try to get back to you soon with speed results, as I'm sure the other 3 CCs will. I've added the Zope list back to the addresses as there may be others there interested in trying it out now that Phil Harris has confirmed the new version interworks correctly with the Zope implementation. Also added [Zope-dev] list as Zope developers should be more interested and Matt Hamilton as issues below may be closely related to his posting "[Zope-dev] Asyncore in an external method". http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2001-May/011274.html In a previous email CC you said: "I'm really excited that zope people may be using this. Let me know if you have any questions/concerns/requests." As you've also done binary releases for Windows and the various unixen that Zope does releases for, it should be suitable for actually integrating into Zope rather than just as an add-on "Product" or it's present form as just a separate python process talking to Zope rather than implementing Zope's xml-rpc itself. So here goes with some questions/concerns/requests... In the README you mention: "Some time I should document everything better, especially the nonblocking aspects of the server and client." and " * Non-Blocking IO: This becomes important when you have critical applications (especially servers) that CANNOT be held up because a client is trickling a request in or is reading a response at 1 byte per second. * Event based: This goes hand in hand with non-blocking IO. It lets you use an event based model for your client/server application, where the main body is basically the select loop on the file descriptors you are interested in. The work is done by registering callbacks for different events you received on file descriptors. This can be very nice. There is some work to be done here, but all the hooks are in place. See TO DO for a list of the features that have yet to be incorporated." (BTW there is currently no "TO DO" file.) These aspects are a very big advantage. For Zope as a client, I suspect that the trickling issue may also be very important since it could be blocking an expensive Zope thread while waiting for a response from a slow remote server to pass on some information in response to relayed request (ie http/xmlrpc relay mode or even straight xmlrpc/xmlrpc proxy mode). As you also mentioned, "the implementation at the other xmlrpc end will be the bottle-neck pretty soon". Sorry I'm not very familiar with how to do this stuff myself, so I have 3 questions which maybe you could answer when you get around to doing those docs (or even better by also providing implementations in the next release ;-) or perhaps someone else on CC list knows the answers or is planning to do something about it? 1) I'm not sure if I've got it right, but my understanding is that despite being based on a Medusa Reactor design that can handle many web hits with a single thread, Zope also maintains a small pool of threads to allow for (brief) blocking on calls to the file system for ZODB and for (also brief) external connections. I suspect these threads are "expensive" because they each end up keeping separate copies of cached web pages etc (to avoid slow python thread switching). So simply increasing the number of such threads is not recommended for improving Zope performance - performance relies on the non-blocking async Medusa Reactor design of Zserver, not on the threading, which just seems to be a sort of extra workaround. If that is correct, then a few concurrent external calls to slow external xmlrpc servers (eg for credit card authorization taking 30 seconds or more) could easily tie up a lot of Zope resources. The non-blocking py-xmlrpc client could presumably surrender it's turn in the main event loop for it's thread until a response is received and then be woken up by the response, thus improving things greatly. Unfortunately I have no idea how to do this - whether it would just happen automatically or there are built in facilities for doing that sort of thing easily in Zope already, or whether it is difficult to do. I am just guessing that there would be some special tricks needed to wake up a channel when a response comes back (eg using the stuff in Zserver/medusa/select_trigger.py and Zserver/PubCore/. which I don't fully understand, but looks relevant). Maybe I have misunderstood, but it looks to me like existing use of xmlrpc clients *from* Zope to external servers may not take this into account, but just block a thread. So even though the *server* side of xmlrpc used to "publish" zope objects is non-blocking with Zserver/Medusa, it may be just blocking a Zope thread when either an xmlrpc or http web "hit" results in a blocking xmlrpc call to an external server *from* Zope as a client. Some difficulty handling a separate set of socket selects for client calls to external servers may be the reason for this, and may relate to Matt Hamilton's problem. That might not show up in simple testing of the server side, but could become a serious bottleneck with a heavy load of such external calls arising from multiple web hits concurrently when Zope is acting as a proxy/relay to a slow external server rather than just responding itself. eg with 10 Zope threads and 30 second external delays you might end up with every thread blocked when a hit arrives every 3 seconds if only the server side of Zope is non-blocking but the client side blocks. That would be a shame if the server alone could handle 1000 calls per second, which might translate to 500 relayed or proxied calls per second, (regardless of the external delay of 30 seconds) if both sides were non-blocking (ok 30 x 500 = 15,000 micro-thread "channels" is pushing it even though they are just dormant waiting for a response most of the time - but references from the Medusa site indicate that sort of thing is at least *theoretically* possible ;-) http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html At any rate, a *lot* more than 1 every 3 seconds should be feasible, without wasting ridiculous amounts of RAM for per thread Zope caches. (It would still be less than 4 per second instead of 1000 per second even if the external delay was only 3 seconds - the critical thing is whether a non-blocking client can be integrated with Zope, taking into account the multi-threading as well as async Reactor design of Zope). Any comments? 2) Medusa has an async non-blocking "pure python" xmlrpc handler using asyncore - based on "xmlrpcserver.py" by Fredrik Lundh (www.pythonware.com) http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/ medusa-20010416.tgz//xmlrpc_handler.py As far as I can make out this seems to be for the server side only, although there are also both an rpc_server.py *and* an rpc_client.py (not using xmlrpc), so I imagine it would be easy enough to implement a client and a proxy relay for Medusa as well. The examples in the tutorial include an http client and an http proxy relay with both server and client: http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/programming.html I imagine it is quite straight forward for anyone who knows what they are doing to somehow tie the faster py-xmlrpc C version into the Medusa main event loop even though it has it's own set of sockets to select from. Unfortunately I don't know how to do this. It might be generally useful to contribute the necessary wrapper and/or installation instructions to Medusa as well as add them to py-xmlrpc itself to use it for both server and client channels with Medusa, to encourage faster takeup, and as starting point for stuff below without having to get into Zope internals. That would also provide a base reference point for speed tests of what Zope should be capable of, using py-xmlrpc for client as well as server side of plain Medusa with such proxied calls - to compare with tests doing nothing special on Zope for the Zope client side (with various numbers of 1 or more Zope threads and various delays at the remote server). Any chance of this? When? ;-) 3) As far as I can see Zope comes with the following from the top of the src tree: lib/python/xmlrpclib.py lib/python/ZPublisher/xmlrpc.py But nothing in Zserver despite that containing and being based on Medusa. So it is extending the Medusa implementation of xmlrpclib rather than just layering above it. Is anyone planning to provide a replacement based on py-xmlrpc? If so, when - and will it include a non-blocking client side as described above? I've tried to track down some documentation on how XML-RPC fits into Zope. Here's the list I came up with in case it helps or prompts somebody to point out docs or threads with other info. The start of some documentation on how Zope publishes with xml-rpc server is: http://www.zope.org/Members/teyc/howtoXMLRPC2 Others include: http://www.zope.org/Members/Amos/XML-RPC http://www.zope.org/Members/teyc/pipermailXMLRPCWoes http://www.zope.org/Members/teyc/howxmlrpc There is also an XMLRPCProxy: http://www.zope.org/Members/dshaw/XMLRPCProxy And quite a few other references from the search button on www.zope.org for both "xmlrpc" and xml-rpc". Anyway, thanks again for 1000 calls per second!

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Newbie Question
by Ignoramus Maximus 21 May '01

21 May '01

Hi There, I'm an absolute newbie to Zope and was hoping for some help. I'm jumping head first into a project for one of our creative clients. I've recommended Zope over other application servers. One of the requirements for the site is that we build an easy mac-feeling content management system for the clients to update the site as well as upload Quicktime files and change stuff around. Where should I start, and what should I use? Another requirement would be the creation of an online calendar that can be accessed by a particular workgroup. Again, where would I start, and what would I use? Lastly, what does one charge for building a CMS solution as such? I appologise if the questions are trivial. Thanks for the time. iggy

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