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RE: [Zope] The name ZOPE (was RE: [Zope] Linux.com community ad)
by Alexander Staubo 16 Oct '99

16 Oct '99

The name is easier to distinguish for Americans, I think, who pronounce the letter "Z" differently from the character "S". I'm pretty sure Brits don't do this, but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, the verbal resemblance between "Zope" and "soap" is still pretty high. I once spoke with an American about a particular zoological garden and somewhat into my discourse he stopped me to ask what the heck I was talking about and who this "Sue" was. Same thing recently with Zope, and this American wondered, incredulously, how we could develop anything with soap. I've since seen the errors of my ways and I hand out Zs less casually these days. Zope isn't a great name, but great names in the computing business is the exception, not the rule. Names are but placeholders for our associative memory: Delphi, Photoshop, Visual C++, Linux, GNOME, KDE, Cold Fusion -- they're all pretty inane. Few describe the product; some (Visual C++) are just plain wrong. One my favourite product names is Maya (the high-end 3D modeling tool from Alias|Wavefront), which has connotations to ancient architecture and the building craft. Such names are few and far between. Extraordinarily few names truly convey anything by themselves. For example, Photoshop, to me, conveys professionalism, stability, speed, and so on -- but that's because these are qualities of the product, not the name. If the opposite were true, all product names would be things like ProfessionalStableFastImageEditingProgram. The poorest names in the business are those which strive that kind of descriptive verbosity (be on the lookout for words such as "super" or "ultra" or "plus"). Ultimately any name may be redefined. I wouldn't matter an iota to me if Photoshop were called Dung. Companies would still buy it based on its quality. Nobody buys a product based on its name alone, especially not relatively unknown products. As others have pointed out, "Zope" lends itself to the unsearchable mess we call the world wide web. That's good. It's short, syntactically unique in the English language, easily pronouncable, and so on. That's good, too. Personally I'd be even happier if DC would forgo the acronymic baggage. "Zope" is silly enough by itself; it doesn't have to be shorthand for "Z Object Publishing Environment", too. Having to "explain" it only serves to dampen its effect. So while we likely all agree that Zope isn't brilliant or even that good, it doesn't really matter. And I'll have a Zope-on-a-Rope to go, please. -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." --Carl Sagan > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay, Dylan [mailto:djay@lucent.com] > Sent: 15. oktober 1999 03:26 > To: 'Rafael Cordones Marcos'; Brian Lloyd > Cc: Users of the Z Object Publishing Environment > Subject: [Zope] The name ZOPE (was RE: [Zope] Linux.com community ad) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rafael Cordones Marcos [mailto:rcm@bcnartdirecte.com] > > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 04:41 > > To: Brian Lloyd > > Cc: Users of the Z Object Publishing Environment > > Subject: Re: [Zope] Linux.com community ad > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 14, 1999 at 01:42:31PM -0400, Brian Lloyd wrote: > > > > Michael, you are resourceful enough to make such a > > banner, aren't you? > > > > > > Ok, I'll play. How about this one? :^) > > > > > > http://www.zope.org/Members/Brian/Misc/got_zope.jpg > > > > > These just came up: > > > > - The web is made for Zopping. > > - Zope: the web with a Zertain Class. > > - Zope: work the web with class. > > - Zope: work the web with classes. > > - Zope makes the Web go round. (or is it "arround"?) > > - To Zope or not to Zope... that ain't a question! > > > > NOTE: As English is not my mother tongue, thess phrases > might have the > > wrong > > meaning for me. Feel free to modify them! ;) > > I seem to be the one that rains on a lot of parades but I > thought this was > the time to bring up something thats been bothering me for > awhile. The name > ZOPE. In my opinion its not very good. It doesn't convey the > sense of an > enterprise object oriented web publishing system. It sounds > silly. Zope as > in Soap. Zope on a Rope. People look at me strange when I say > I've been > working with Zope. > I think Z Object Publishing Environment is fine but thats not > a name its a > description. I personally think it needs a name that suggests > the power, > stability and flexibility that is Zope. > > Am I alone in this thought? > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (Related lists - please, no cross posts or HTML encoding! > > To receive general Zope announcements, see: > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > For developer-specific issues, zope-dev(a)zope.org - > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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Re: [Zope] The name ZOPE (was RE: [Zope] Linux.com community ad)
by Christopher Petrilli 16 Oct '99

16 Oct '99

While this isn't my OFFICIAL capacity, I think the chances of Zope being renamed are roughly equivilent to us rewriting it in Perl and taking all the objects out :-) We thought a lot before picking Zope, and we've started to build a buzz about it, so why should we change now? Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli Python Powered Digital Creations, Inc. | petrilli(a)digicool.com http://www.digicool.com

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Linux.com community ad
by Chris McDonough 16 Oct '99

16 Oct '99

The gracious folks over at linux.com have agreed to lend us some space on their front page in the form of a rotated banner ad (the one that runs on the right-hand side of the page, halfway down). I sort of figured that the graphics would be stolen from the Zope.org masthead graphic, but can anyone come up with a "tag line" for this ad? (E.g.: "Zope: saving the world from mediocrity" or somesuch?). Any ideas or contributions in the form of graphics are appreciated...

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testing new subscription
by Phil Harris 16 Oct '99

16 Oct '99

ignore me

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KM|netNews MailHost SMTP error
by Karl Pelletier 15 Oct '99

15 Oct '99

Hi. I'm still a newbie to Zope, so forgive me if this is obvious to others... I've installed the KM|netNews product and everything is working correctly EXCEPT everytime I enter a new article and click "submit" (which should then email the person in the "article_notify" property of the KMArticlestore) I get a SMTP 501 error: sender's email must contain a valid domain. I know my MailHost is configured correctly, because I can use sendmail elsewhere. Since I'm getting the SMTP error, mailhost is obviously in the path, right? Since it's saying "sender's email" it's a problem parsing what was received by the form field, right? UGH. I've looked everywhere, even hard-coded the info - still doesn't work. Can anyone PLEASE help me? Config info: running latest Zope, Apache/Linux box, latest KM|netNews product, Mail Host that shipped w/Zope Thanks in advance, Liz Pelletier

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The name ZOPE (was RE: [Zope] Linux.com community ad)
by Jay, Dylan 15 Oct '99

15 Oct '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Rafael Cordones Marcos [mailto:rcm@bcnartdirecte.com] > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 04:41 > To: Brian Lloyd > Cc: Users of the Z Object Publishing Environment > Subject: Re: [Zope] Linux.com community ad > > > On Thu, Oct 14, 1999 at 01:42:31PM -0400, Brian Lloyd wrote: > > > Michael, you are resourceful enough to make such a > banner, aren't you? > > > > Ok, I'll play. How about this one? :^) > > > > http://www.zope.org/Members/Brian/Misc/got_zope.jpg > > > These just came up: > > - The web is made for Zopping. > - Zope: the web with a Zertain Class. > - Zope: work the web with class. > - Zope: work the web with classes. > - Zope makes the Web go round. (or is it "arround"?) > - To Zope or not to Zope... that ain't a question! > > NOTE: As English is not my mother tongue, thess phrases might have the > wrong > meaning for me. Feel free to modify them! ;) I seem to be the one that rains on a lot of parades but I thought this was the time to bring up something thats been bothering me for awhile. The name ZOPE. In my opinion its not very good. It doesn't convey the sense of an enterprise object oriented web publishing system. It sounds silly. Zope as in Soap. Zope on a Rope. People look at me strange when I say I've been working with Zope. I think Z Object Publishing Environment is fine but thats not a name its a description. I personally think it needs a name that suggests the power, stability and flexibility that is Zope. Am I alone in this thought?

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RE: [Zope] Future of Zope
by Brian Lloyd 15 Oct '99

15 Oct '99

> Is there any prospect of some form of friendlier developer > GUI to Zope, > perhaps a Java client. Features such as Syntax highlighting of DTML, > and a better error description system, would greatly enhance > the ease of > use of Zope. Further, such a system would not need to replace the > present HTML interface, but could be used optionally. I may > be showing > my newbieness here, but I guess a good first step might be a Java > conduit to the Zope database - perhaps one already exists. > > I am not knocking the hard work that developers have put into the > system, however I suspect these are the questions that many > Zope newbies > will be asking. This is something that has been rumbling since the earliest days of Zope. On the one hand, a huge part of the Zope story is "through- the-web". On the other, HTML (as we are all well aware) is a pretty restrictive user interface. Aside from the amount of time and effort required, I think one thing that has kept any serious efforts at a native or Java applet UI from happening is the fact that no matter what you implement or how well it is done, there are still going to be a significant number of people who don't like it and won't use it because "its not their tool". People understandably have differing tools preferences (emacs, dreamweaver, the list is endless). In light of this, we have tried to take a standards-based "maximum interoperability" approach. Our approach to date has been to provide support for things like FTP, WebDAV, and XML-RPC in an effort to work with as many standards-based clients as possible. We are also keeping an eye on developments in the Mozilla community, and the things they are working on look like they could be very promising as a foundation for eventually providing a much more usable and robust interface to Zope without losing the benefits of the through-the-web model. Such a thing would fit better with our standards-based approach than a totally non-std java interface, and using XUL and some of the other Moz technologies would allow Zope to provide a rich interface and still remain easily customizable. Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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Zope in Business
by Jerry.Spicklemire＠IFLYATA.COM 15 Oct '99

15 Oct '99

Hi Zope Fans, We're at a breathing point in the prototyping stage of our IntraNet project at work, and ready to address all the nitty gritty details we've bumped up against getting this far. Part of this process is looking at how Zope may be applied to resolve some of the thornier issues. We anticipate Zope serving as a general extension in aid of the requirement to publish the large static document library we have, and will continue to add to. More specifically we think Zope may fit well as a content management and security / authentication platform, and as a workflow application development environment. My boss has asked me to identify some Fortune 1000 class companies where Zope is in use, so that we might beg for site visiting privileges, to see how other folks are putting Zope / Python through their paces. If you know of an example, preferably in the USA, ideally in the Midwest, please consider contacting me directly. If you have entrée to such a site, and also have a weakness for cheap plastic airplane replicas, this could work out very well for both of us! Zopefully yours, Jerry Spicklemire, IS Software Engineer ATA (American Trans Air)

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RE: [Zope] Future of Zope
by Brian Lloyd 15 Oct '99

15 Oct '99

> Doesn't Java (as a pretty much universally accepted client side > language) figure in this anywhere? Would it really be that > difficult to > create a Java conduit to the Zope database? It could support the > various permissions based access and stuff, and then support > plugins for > editing the different types of object. In this manner, say, > the makers > of SquishDot could create a custom SquishDot editor plugin, and such > like. I will freely admit that I haven't looked at the Zope Database > too closely, but is this feasible or am I talking rubbish? No, you're not talking rubbish. I should probably clarify the viewpoint from which I'm speaking. At this point in time, we here at _DC_ have no plans to do a Java interface. While it is something we've noodled from time to time, it is more attractive to us from a business standpoint to investigate other areas that fit better and provide more "bang for the buck" in terms of our resources and strategic direction. So we are not "against Java" or anything, but it's not something that currently fits in the strategic grand scheme of things for Digital Creations. My own opinion is that this should be considered an _opportunity_ by Java folks. We encourage the community to make Zope into the tool they need. So certainly it is feasible, and I suspect that there would be valuable lessons in doing the analysis and design that would benefit the Zope architecture. Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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XML Document and ID processing
by Rahul Dave 15 Oct '99

15 Oct '99

Seeing as "id" is crucial to the zope system, and "id" is also used in XML documents to refer to particular tags, there seems to be a long term problem in parsing documents into a zopish DOM tree. Is any plan been made to address this problem, perhaps mapping id to some other letter on parse? Rahul

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