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RE: [Zope] DTML reformulated as XML (was RE: [Zope] <% ... %> ?)
by Michel Pelletier 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

Jim introduced a new experimental DTML syntax this week: http://www.zope.org/pipermail/zope-checkins/1999-June/000667.html (BTW, for those of you who don't know, the zope-checkins mail list provides a checkin by checkin view of the evolution of Zope) This syntax is handy for emacs HTML mode, which never gets the SSI syntax right. I'm going to start playing with it. I understand the pain of those who want to use their favorite web authoring tool to write DTML, but being a you'll-see-me-using-a-different-editor-when-my-cold-dead-hand-double-cli cks-on-its-icon Emacs user, I have little sympathy. ;) (Emacs does it all!) -Michel > -----Original Message----- > From: Jules Allen [mailto:zope@jules.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 9:02 AM > To: Paul Everitt > Cc: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] DTML reformulated as XML (was RE: [Zope] <% ... %> > ?) > > > On Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 05:51:27AM -0400, Paul Everitt wrote: > |I'd like to make sure everyone agrees on the goals, though. > Just like > |the idea of "Python Methods" aka script objects, I think > everyone wants > |a change, but perhaps for different reasons. > > I've been a long time Python fan and only recently have I got > to use it > in order to help pay my mortgage. Of course I came to it via Perl and > don't have the same bitter-sweet relationship with it as I do with The > Camel. > > I can come back to something I wrote months before and instantly know > what the code does even if I can't remember what I was thinking. It > could be that I'm just a sloppy programmer any Python forces me to be > more organized. Which is good. > > But hey, I don't think I need to sell you on Python. :-) > > Zope got my teeth itching as I suppose I came to it expecting > and embedded > Python/HTML love fest which isn't the case. DTML can be Python-ish > sometimes but not at others. Unlearn, as Yoda might say. > > I'm having a hard time with DTML as I'm still not sure what I can do > with it. Getting over the i-don't-think-in-perl-php-cold-fusion-or-asp > hump is part of the process of course. All my personal > breakthroughs in > programming come from reading other people's code and that's > really what > prompted me to drop the original email. > > It is *hard* to read DTML! Partly because my eyes aren't used > to it and > partly because my editors (vim and Homesite) don't know about DTML. In > an earlier email either you or somebody else made a comment > about having > to write a syntax highlighter for each editor and what a drag it would > be. Sure, any decent html editor will deal with  correctly but > it's a bigger drag for the newbie who doesn't know the syntax of the > language. > > In a round-about way, I'm freely admitting to being a wickedly > lazy individual. I certainly don't want GUI tools to build DTML (GUI > programming tools are almost as evil as the seeminly humble mouse, but > that's another story) but I do want either an editor that will help me > with the drudge work or a simpler way to write the language. > Or even -- > yum! -- both. > > One of the sexiest PHP features is the syntax highlighter. If a site > allows it. It's not a very whizzy example but take a look at > http://www.php.net/docs.php3 and then take a look at http://www.php.net/source.php3?page_url=/docs.php3 That takes newbie "look, how did they do that?" questions to a "look how they did that!" level. Nice. Is this already in Zope? And if it is, why couldn't I find it? (Hint: because you're a wickedly lazy individual, Jules) |> The simple stuff is easy: |> |> <?xml version='1.0'?> |> <xdtml:xdtml xmlns:xdtml="http://www.zope.org/xdtml" |> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1"> |> |> <xdtml:var name='standard_html_header'/> |> <h1><xdtml:var name='title'/></h1> |> <p>This is a paragraph.</p> |> |> <xdtml:if expr='age > 18'> |> <p>Text not everyone should read.</p> |> </xdtml:if> |> |> <xdtml:var name='standard_html_footer'/> |> |> </xtml:xdtml> | |I'd love to do a straw vote from the "I hate SSI" crowd: is the above |better? Tons better. An editor like HomeSite could be configured to handle this nicely. And it doesn't look like line noise :-) Cheers, Jules _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

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RE: [Zope] Is there any plans to combine harvest with catalog?
by Michel Pelletier 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

Hmm.. I seem to remember Harvest being an old cache project that the Squid folks picked up on. HTTP Caching and Cataloging the same problem? Perhaps I am thinking of something different, or perhaps the harvest project had more goals than just caching. One problem with other cataloging/indexing tools is that they are, at best, designed to index URLs. This is al find and good, but we want to catalog object and their attributes, this is very Zope and Python specific. htDIG for example, will index all the documents on your site, but will it tell you the last document a certain Zope user modifed was? Will it give you a list of the 10 most recent news items (how can it know what are 'news items' without a meta_type?)? Also, with ZClasses, you can create your own objects and therefore they can have their own attributes. Let's say you made a car object, and it had a manufacturer attribute, someone elses cataloging package wouldn't be able to allow you to search for a certain care made by Ford before a certain year, becaause all of thesse attributes are specific to your application. These are the kinds of problems our Catalog is designed to solve (in addition to good old fasioned free-text searching). -Michel > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay, Dylan [mailto:djay@lucent.com] > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 11:41 PM > To: 'zope(a)zope.org' > Subject: [Zope] Is there any plans to combine harvest with catalog? > > > Seems catalog in solving the same problem. > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] BS BS BS BS BS BS
by Michel Pelletier 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Tony McDonald [mailto:tony.mcdonald@ncl.ac.uk] > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 2:52 AM > To: Robert W. Canary > Cc: zope > Subject: Re: [Zope] BS BS BS BS BS BS > > > Therefore it seems that all URLs for the particular server > will get sent to > Zope (I am trying to figure out a method whereby a subset of > URLs on my > virtual server get sent to Apache for 'normal' processing) and > RewriteRules are processed in order, therefore you can specify a Rule that 1) does no rewriting and 2) stops the rewrite engine at that point and drops the request into Apache for regular processing. If you specify this type of rule before the Zope rule, then you can create a subset of your URL space for other purposes (such as flatfile serving, or traditional CGI scripting). See http://www.apache.org/ for the details on the rewrite engine, be warned, rewriting is perhaps one of the deepest voodoos of Apache. -Michel

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Re: URGENT: Can't start up zope
by Jay, Dylan 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Pelletier > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 2:42 PM > To: 'djay(a)lucent.com'; zope(a)zope.org > Cc: Support > Subject: RE: URGENT: Can't start up zope. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dylan Jay [mailto:djay@cse.unsw.edu.au] > > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 2:29 PM > > To: zope(a)zope.org > > Cc: support(a)digicool.com > > Subject: URGENT: Can't start up zope. > > > > > > I was doing some external method work on our production > > server (silly boy) > > and something went very wrong. Every time I start zope it > > will crash. This > > is both as an NT service and using ZHTTPServer. ZHTTPServer > > gives a stack > > dump that mentions initializing products and factories and stuff > > (unfortunatly my office has a power outage currently so I > > can't the dump > > or the data.bbb until 5 hours or so). Using the bbb.py it reports no > > corruptions so I can only presume the database contains some > > configurations that screws up zope. To make matters worse our > > expensive > > backup solution doesn't seem to have backed up data.bbb. > > > > Can you send us this traceback? Did a power outage occour > while the server was running? Did the machine not get shut > down properly and this this problem happened? Or did it just > happen after a clean shutdown (ie, what was the state of the > server before coming up the first time with this error). No, It occured while testing an external method. Heres the dump C:\Program Files\Provision>..\python\python serve.py Traceback (innermost last): File "serve.py", line 100, in ? ZopeHTTPServer.main(args) File "C:\Program Files\Provision\ZopeHTTPServer\ZopeHTTPServer.py", line 498, in main start(module_file,host,port,threading,env) File "C:\Program Files\Provision\ZopeHTTPServer\ZopeHTTPServer.py", line 436, in start set_published_module(module_file,BoboRequestHandler,env) File "C:\Program Files\Provision\ZopeHTTPServer\ZopeHTTPServer.py", line 432, in set_published_module __import__(name) # to catch problem modules right away File "C:\Program Files\Provision\lib\python\Main.py", line 103, in ? Bobobase=OFS.Application.open_bobobase() File "C:\Program Files\Provision\lib\python\OFS\Application.py", line 371, in open_bobobase install_products(app) File "C:\Program Files\Provision\lib\python\OFS\Application.py", line 486, in install_products App.Product.initializeProduct(product, product_name, package_dir, app) File "C:\Program Files\Provision\lib\python\App\Product.py", line 428, in init ializeProduct if old is not None: products._delObject(name) File "C:\Program Files\Provision\lib\python\App\Product.py", line 145, in _del Object for factory in getattr(self, id)._factories(): factory._unregister() AttributeError: _factories Now that I've had some time to debug it a little, what I discover is this. The above crash happens while trying to initialize the MailHost object. The reason is that getattr(self,id) in the call above is actually a DTML object not a Factory object. Somehow a piece of code got whacked in the wrong place. I can now get the site up by removing the MailHost product. However mail is an extermely important part of the site in that no new user can register without it. When a shut it down and add MailHost back in I get the same problem. What I need to do is somehow take out what is posing as the MailHost Product. I have no idea how to do this. I will resend this mail to digicool.com with my database > -Michel > > > What I need to know are > > a) What the likely causes of a something like I'm describing? > > I realize I > > havn't given much to go on, but ANY information you can give > > me at this > > point would very very appreciated. > > b) What tools do I need to modify the data.bbb. I can convert > > it xml ok > > but it seems there's no way to convert it back. Is there any > > tool where I > > can just roll back the last few transactions? (This may not > > work actually > > as it was probably the external method that did the damage). > > > > In case its relevent I guess I should include some detail of > > the external > > method I was working on. It was a method to determine if a user had > > permission to view an object. It looked at a users roles > and the roles > > for the view permission. It would recurse with the parent if > > the object > > aquired roles. > > > > Thanks in advance for any ideas anyone has. > > > > > > > > Dylan. > > djay(a)lucent.com > > >

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Zope to the rest of the world?
by Tom Deprez 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

Hi All, Just visited Siemens Atea, it's learning centre. Great things there, among some thingies which can be interested for all of you, including DC. 1) They use an application of Horizon to give there lessons etc. Looks nice. Anybody creating something like to work in corporation with Zope? 2) They were making a sort of knowledge base themselfs.... : Coaches could make there own folders and give other people possibility to add articles, or there own folders into the database (relational). Coaches create a hierarchical structure of topics in folders. Per folder a mailing list exist (concerning the topic) Per folder a news group exist Per folder a place exists where people can put video, presentations etc... Doesn't this sound very familiar? If we put Zope, Portal Toolkit and Squishdot together......? I find it interesting, but also pitty that other companies are creating there own tools for this... I think this is because they don't know about Zope.... DC, what about making some more commercial outside America? Europe for instance? Giving lectures, .... I 'm not sure, but I think little people in Europe know of Zope and it's many capabilities. Any ideas or interest in this? Someone? Tom.

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[announce] zope dataminer demos (animated gifs, screen shots)
by Anthony Baxter 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

As I promised, here's a few demos of the zope dataminer software. There's a couple of animated gifs which show the working through of the first two examples of the tutorial, and some snapshots of a couple of other examples. http://www.interlink.com.au/anthony/dmcdemo.html They're pretty simple examples, but they start to show some of the really really neat stuff you can do with this software. Anthony -- Anthony Baxter <anthony(a)interlink.com.au> It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

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Re: Authorization required problem with Squishdot
by Squishdot 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

--- sales(a)compkarori.co.nz wrote: <snip> > Any progress on sqishing this bug yet? > Good news, found the bug and squished it flat, dead as a doornail :)! Basically the fix has to do with changing the rightbox_items table (a TinyTable instance) data by replacing the NULL values with "". You should also set the Query TinyTable privilege in the root(i.e. topmost) folder security page for Anonymous access. I'll release a new maintenance release tomorrow which also change "relurl" fields to an int format and after I test it more but that's basically the problem. Best regards, === Butch Landingin Squishdot maintainer http://members.tripod.com/squishdot/index.html squishdot(a)yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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SunOS problems
by Pavlos Christoforou 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

Hello all I have downloaded the newly released Zope-1.10.3b1 and tried to install it on a SunOS 5.6 box (My first ever contact with a Sun machine!). I downloaded Python-1.5.2 as well. they both compiled successfully and Zope seems to start up ok. However whenever I try to access the Zope site I get: Unhandled exception in thread: Traceback (innermost last): File "/export/home/yifan/pavlos/Zope-1.10.3b1-src/ZServer/PubCore/ZServerPublisher.py", line 95, in __init__ response=response) TypeError: unexpected keyword argument: request I am using the latest release of ZServer and the accompanied patched ZPublisher. Any clues?? Pavlos

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Re: [Zope] BS BS BS BS BS BS
by Tony McDonald 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

> Thanks Tony, > > I tried your Rewrite and did get a little further. I went ahead and > upgraded to the apache-1.3.6. Looking at the rewrites from the > installation docs and the zap and the ones posted, I am confused as to what > is the objective here. Exactly what part of the uri are we supposed to > be rewriting? Are we altering a call for Zope.cgi or we altering anything > after the Zope.cgi/*? > (I've cc'ed this to the list, as it might help others, and the last paragraph is something I'd like an answer to as well) With the Rewrite rule as written, I *believe* that the url http://bogus.net/tester/test_script will be sent to the Zope.cgi as tester/test_script. Therefore it seems that all URLs for the particular server will get sent to Zope (I am trying to figure out a method whereby a subset of URLs on my virtual server get sent to Apache for 'normal' processing) and > Also I was wondering were do -you- keep your Zope.cgi? and what permission > do you have on it (and ownership)? > In the cgi-bin directory referred to in the Rewrite rule. Note that there *seems* to be problems with permissions with the pcgi stuff, ie you need to be pretty lax... The cgi-bin directory: drwxr-xr-x 3 nnle fmcc 512 Mar 3 23:08 cgi-bin/ The Zope.cgi -rwxr-xr-x 1 nnle fmcc 669 Mar 3 23:08 Zope.cgi* and probably most important of all, the var directory drwxrwxrwx 5 nnle fmcc 1024 Jun 11 12:12 var/ ...and it's contents... -rwxrwxrwx 1 nnle fmcc 13923900 Jun 11 15:36 Data.bbb* -rw-r--r-- 1 nnle fmcc 12999 Jun 11 12:03 Data.bbb.index -rwxrwxrwx 1 nnle fmcc 9 Mar 4 16:14 Data.bbb.trans* -rw-r--r-- 1 nnle fmcc 92 Jun 11 12:03 Data.bbb.trans.index -rwxrwxrwx 1 nnle fmcc 516 Feb 16 00:18 README* -rw-r--r-- 1 nnle fmcc 2143 Jun 8 05:51 ZServer.log -rw-r--r-- 1 nnle fmcc 4963 Mar 5 21:05 bbb.py -rw-r--r-- 1 nnle fmcc 11280 Jun 3 08:19 bbb2.py -rw-rw-rw- 1 nobody fmcc 2589 Jun 11 16:17 pcgi.log -rw-rw-rw- 1 nnle fmcc 4 Jun 11 12:12 pcgi.pid srwxrwxrwx 1 nobody fmcc 0 Jun 11 12:12 pcgi.soc= -rwxrwxrwx 1 nnle fmcc 221328 Jun 11 12:03 serve.errors* -rwxrwxrwx 1 nnle fmcc 1329 Jun 11 12:03 serve.log* -rw-r--r-- 1 nnle fmcc 4 Jun 10 09:04 serve.pid the 'nobody' group files are created by Apache via the cgi call. I had to set the Data.bbb and Data.bbb files via chmod 777 before I could get the pcgi version of Zope to work. To the list and the DC guys: This setup works for me (ok, you can all stop reading now), but it's pretty kludgey. If it's an effect of the various incarnations of Apache and Rewrite rules (as Michel wrote earlier), then ok I can live with it. There does seem a 'black magic' angle to getting PCGI to work however (but after my latest debacle of trashing my Database by running the CGI and :9673 Zopes in parallel), I'll likely as not, stick with the CGI route..particularly as mod_pcgi has recently turned up. tone.

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Re: [Zope] DTML reformulated as XML (was RE: [Zope] <% ... %> ?)
by Otto Hammersmith 12 Jun '99

12 Jun '99

Paul Everitt wrote on 6/11/99 5:54 pm: > >Otto Hammersmith wrote: >> I'll start by saying, this is >*absolutely* the right thing >to do. I've > >Hmm, I don't get that >reaction often these days. >:^) > >> been mulling over this >exact idea, but haven't had >the time to post something >to the list. (Not that I've >been playing with Zope >overly long.) > >I'd like to make sure >everyone agrees on the >goals, though. Just like the >idea of "Python Methods" >aka script objects, I think >everyone wants change, but >perhaps for different >reasons. > >> I do want to point one thing >out, though: adding >namespaces does break the >DTD. Currently there is no >way to validate a document >that uses > >Hmm, didn't realize that. > >> namespaces. This will be >fixed, eventually. Until >then, you just have to live >with well-formed but not >valid documents. >> (Well, you can define a >special DTD that defines the >namespace prefix as well, >but then that defeats the >ability to change the >namespace prefix.) > >Right. > >> > Why? >> > >> > 1) Alledgely it is the >future of HTML. >> > >> > 2) Becoming well-formed >means the authors can be >given hints before >> > saving changes, and >Zope can do smarter things >with structured data on >> > the server. >> > >> > Why Not? >> > >> > 1) A number of >differences with HTML >might drive people off. >> >> Purely syntactic: <br> >becomes <br/> and you >can't leave out end tags >> (</p>) it's not so bad. >Well, okay, I imagine there >will be a lot of griping over >the decision of enforce >lowercase element names. :) > >The bit about: > ><select name="foo"> ><option selected>Splat ></select> > >...not working, as attributes >(selected) can't be minimed >is, erm, weird. > >> > 2) It isn't here yet. >> >> Simple transformation >makes XHTML into HTML, >again for old clients. >Probably so simple, it's not >worth involving XSL. > >Hopefully there wouldn't be >much transformation, right? >That is, people could just >write stuff that was >readable by clients. > >> > 3) Zope syntax might >not be mappable into XML. >> >> Close, but not quite. I'm >sure it's possible to create an >XML syntax that has all the >functionality of DTML... >however, it might very well >end up being an ugly >unwieldy syntax. > >Here's one thing in DTML >that would be awfully >obscure in XML: > ><a href=""> > >That is, putting a tag inside >an attribute. Chris Petrilli >and Jim talked about this >today, perhaps as as entity >references. > >> > At any rate, I'd love for >someone in the Zope >community to march off and >> > take a look at this, then >make a proposal for how >things should be >> > changed. As always, >patches are accepted. :^) >> >> I've been meaning to do >something like this. I might >just spend some time >thinking about it this >weekend. Any actual coding >probably won't happen, >though. :) > >Understood. If you produced >a clear definition of the >goals, some samples for the >syntax, and a list of things >that are good and bad about >it, then that would be a >major win. > >> The simple stuff is easy: >> >> <?xml version='1.0'?> >> <xdtml:xdtml >xmlns:xdtml="http://www.z >ope.org/xdtml" >xmlns="http://www.w3.org/ >TR/xhtml1"> >> >> <xdtml:var >name='standard_html_head >er'/> >> <h1><xdtml:var >name='title'/></h1> >> <p>This is a >paragraph.</p> >> >> <xdtml:if expr='age > >18'> >> <p>Text not everyone >should read.</p> >> </xdtml:if> >> >> <xdtml:var >name='standard_html_foote >r'/> >> >> </xtml:xdtml> > >I'd love to do a straw vote >from the "I hate SSI" crowd: >is the above better? > >> The if gets really strange >when you start adding 'elif' >and 'else' clauses. I'll have to >think about that one. >> >> The containing xdtml >element is just there as a >place to hang the >namespace declarations off >of. Also, it's there to make >the DTML object a >full-fledged self-contained >XML document, needed to >make any kind of editor >useful. > >Precisely. It comes from the >namespace declaration at >the top. > >One more thing to muse >over is whether other things >from XML land should >surface. > >For instance, I've long >wondered if the ubiquitous >var tag should be broken >apart. People ask: why can't >yo > >******************* >****** >This e-mail has been >truncated. The entire e-mail >is available in your E-Mail >application. > -Otto.

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