October 2006 - Zope-Dev

Re: [ZWeb] Re: [Zope-dev] svn.zope.org down?
by Wichert Akkerman 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

I did a bit of checking: zope.org has a crazy number of DNS servers and they are not all in sync. Particularly seconly.rackspace.com (69.20.0.180) and cabana.palladion.com (64.34.177.88) are not authorative for the zope.org domain and will just refer back to the root servers. This shows some obvious DNS problems: [levante;~]-26> for i in 216.122.7.155 8.7.96.28 69.20.0.180 64.34.177.88 63.240.213.250 70.168.181.3 70.84.6.50 207.234.248.200 ; do dig zope.org soa @$i ; done | grep SOA | grep -v '^;' zope.org. 7200 IN SOA ns1.zoneedit.com. soacontact.zoneedit.com. 1159817268 14400 7200 950400 7200 zope.org. 7200 IN SOA ns1.zoneedit.com. soacontact.zoneedit.com. 1159817265 14400 7200 950400 7200 zope.org. 300 IN SOA ns2.zope.com. postmaster.zope.com. 2006092901 300 300 300 150 zope.org. 300 IN SOA ns2.zope.com. postmaster.zope.com. 2006092901 300 300 300 150 zope.org. 7200 IN SOA ns1.zoneedit.com. soacontact.zoneedit.com. 1159817261 14400 7200 950400 7200 zope.org. 7200 IN SOA ns1.zoneedit.com. soacontact.zoneedit.com. 1159817268 14400 7200 950400 7200 note how those answers differ wildly: there are four different versions of the zope.org domain going around. This will not clear up automatically: the domain registration, nameserver configuration and zone files seem to be need some updating. Wichert. Previously Justizin wrote: > Wichert - > > Use /etc/hosts. Clear local DNS caches if you can. > > 63.240.213.173 cvs.zope.org > > It resolves fine from the ten or so machines I can check it on, but > that's only 0.0000000000001% or so of the internet. > > If you see something other than hosts which point at 63.240.213.1, > please provide details. > > On 10/12/06, Chris Withers <chris(a)simplistix.co.uk> wrote: > >There still appear to be some outstanding dns issues... > > > >Chris > > > >Wichert Akkerman wrote: > >> Is something happening with svn.zope.org? I haven't been able to use > >> anonymous or authorized svn for two days. > >> > >> Wichert. > >> > > > >-- > >Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting > > - http://www.simplistix.co.uk > >_______________________________________________ > >Zope-web maillist - Zope-web(a)zope.org > >http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web > > > > > -- > Justizin, Independent Interactivity Architect > ACM SIGGRAPH SysMgr, Reporter > http://www.siggraph.org/ -- Wichert Akkerman <wichert(a)wiggy.net> It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple.

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svn.zope.org down?
by Wichert Akkerman 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

Is something happening with svn.zope.org? I haven't been able to use anonymous or authorized svn for two days. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman <wichert(a)wiggy.net> It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple.

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buildbot failure in Zope trunk 2.4 Windows 2000 zc-bbwin6
by buildbot＠zope.com 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

The Buildbot has detected a failed build of Zope trunk 2.4 Windows 2000 zc-bbwin6. Buildbot URL: http://buildbot.zope.org/ Build Reason: The web-page 'force build' button was pressed by '': Build Source Stamp: None Blamelist: BUILD FAILED: failed test sincerely, -The Buildbot

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buildbot failure in Zope trunk 2.4 Windows 2000 zc-bbwin6
by buildbot＠zope.com 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

The Buildbot has detected a failed build of Zope trunk 2.4 Windows 2000 zc-bbwin6. Buildbot URL: http://buildbot.zope.org/ Build Reason: The web-page 'force build' button was pressed by '': Build Source Stamp: None Blamelist: BUILD FAILED: failed test sincerely, -The Buildbot

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Can anyone do something about the Zope 2 Windows buildbots?
by Sidnei da Silva 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

I've asked several times about fixing the buildbot config for Zope 2 on Windows. Doesn't look like anyone is listening. That's very sad. -- Sidnei da Silva Enfold Systems http://enfoldsystems.com Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214

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Re: [Zope-dev] Maintainer of Zope 2 Windows builds?
by Sidnei da Silva 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 12:19:22PM -0400, Tim Peters wrote: | You (ZC, ZF, the community) want someone who /uses/ Zope on Windows to make | Windows releases. It was at best half nuts that I kept doing it after | building & testing an installer once each N weeks became my only contact | with Zope. I'm using Zope on Windows on a daily basis now. So that might mean me. :) I would like to propose setting up some sort of 'nightly build' using the buildbot already in place. We can setup it so that you don't need to change the buildbot config to point it to another release. Then whenever a release tarball is done, we poke the buildbot and an installer will show up. If the installer breaks we get some visibility at least. I'm already running a slave for pybots which has all the needed tools in place. It wouldn't require much effort to add a Zope Installer build to that. -- Sidnei da Silva Enfold Systems http://enfoldsystems.com Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214

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RE: [Zope-dev] Maintainer of Zope 2 Windows builds?
by Andreas Jung 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

--On 9. Oktober 2006 12:19:22 -0400 Tim Peters <tim(a)zope.com> wrote: > > Don't know about "should be", but it /is/ related ;-) I had job-related > reasons before to make at least minimal ongoing efforts toward keeping the > Zope test suites happy on Windows, and that in turn meant I kept many full > checkouts of various Zopes current, at least ran the tests routinely, gave > real attention to discussions of possible Windows glitches, built Windows > installers routinely, and so on. > > But I don't do anything related to web development anymore, and "bit rot" > is setting in wrt my once-encyclopedic knowledge of the umpteen quirky > build procedures for the umpteen versions of Windows Zope. When, months > ago, someone else volunteered to take over the Zope3 Windows builds, and > actually followed up on it (yay!), I mentally resigned from these tasks. > > You (ZC, ZF, the community) want someone who /uses/ Zope on Windows to > make Windows releases. It was at best half nuts that I kept doing it > after building & testing an installer once each N weeks became my only > contact with Zope. Thanks for your work on the windows builds in the past. We appreciate your work very much. > >>> I built the last couple of Zope 2.9.x release, but my access to a >>> Windows build environment is gone now... > >> Odd. I believe Tim built 2.9.4 because you could not? > > I don't remember, but it's possible. I'm still willing to build an > installer when there's no alternative, but it's long past time that was > treated as a last-ditch fallback instead of "business as usual". I'd like to see someone taking over the responsibility for the Windows builds for the mid-term future. We have enough smart Windows users that could step in. Thanks in advance, Andreas

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Fat vs Greasy (Was: [Zope-dev] Re: Future of ZClasses)
by Lennart Regebro 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

On 10/9/06, Dieter Maurer <dieter(a)handshake.de> wrote: > Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2006-10-7 23:51 +0200: > > ... > >> I find that the introduction of classes with (multiple) inheritance > >> has been very economic. It was another concept but a highly fruitful > >> one, despite the fact that they are not so liked in Zope3 land. > > > >I think "fat" objects from mixing many different concerns into a single > >implementation are a failed approach. > > > >Seeing how flexible you can be wit > > > > a) separating concerns (functionality, responsibilities) into > >separate objects called components and > > > > b) making the lookup of these components pluggable (using registries > >a.k.a. the Component Architecture), > > I am almost convinced that in some years these registries > will share the fate of acquisition: they will be seens as too much > magic. > > I expect this to happen as soon as Zope3 is becoming main stream > and not only used by the fittest people. > > >I would not recommend anyone to over-use multiple inheritance as it's > >been done in Zope 2. > > I am a strong favorite of (multiple) inheritance and use it excessively. > I have the feeling that it makes me very productive. There is of course no conflict between the two attitudes. It may *look* like there is, though. ;) In one case, you make loads of small objects with separate concerns, and merge them into one object by multiple-inheritance. In the other case you make loads of small objects with separate concerns and merge them via adapters. The first version is less flexible, as changing the behaviour of the resulting "fat" objects requires subclassing, while the other attitude can be hard to overview and grasp (and hence, I'll call it "greasy". Haha.) I think one generally should, in Zope3/Five, use objects as if they always need to be adapted. That is, you get the context, and you adapt it to whatever interface you need, with IMyinterface(context). Then, of course, you may very well make your object a fat object that implement all the bloody interfaces you need, instead of having multiple sets of objects and adapters, which in most cases just make things complicated. But with this attitde, that is make fat objects, but never assume they are fat when you use them, you can with little effort make something flexible. For example: The CalZope calendar attaches all views directly to the ICalendar interface. Only ICalendar objects can have these views. A calendar object in CPS is therefore a calendar that directly implements ICalendar, and some other extended interfaces with CPS support and stuff. This seems perfectly reaonable, but it turns out Plone people don't want that. They want ordinary folder to have these views. The solution to that is to attach all the views to "ICalendarViewable" and in all views make self.context = ICalendar(context), and this way adapt the context. By making my fat calendar objects IcalendarViewable, I need not to change any other code in CPSSharedCalendar or CalZope. I still have the same monolithic objects, that are easy to understand and debug. But for Plone, it would with these changes be perfectly possible to make adapters from Plone folders to ICalendar, and therefore use CalZope views for folders full of plone events. So, as long as you *use* the objects as if they always need to be adapted, you can very well write the objects monolithically if that suits you. So, heres a new tagline: "Use your objects as if they were greasy, and it isn't a problem if they are fat." ;-) -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.nuxeo.org/

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Re: [Zope-dev] Future of ZClasses
by Lennart Regebro 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

On 9/27/06, Andreas Jung <lists(a)zopyx.com> wrote: > It's definitely time to work on a replacement. Yes. And here is my short vision of that. Comments are appreciated. 1. We have a base content class used to create content objects. This has the concept of type, pretty much like CMFs portal_type. The type is defined in the ZODB. 2. On the type you can set marker interfaces, that enables adapters with different functionality, such as indexing awareness, and whatnot. These adapters are written in diskbased pythons. Hence any type of basic functionality like this still needs to be disk-based. 3. Each type also has schemas and forms, templates and python scripts in the ZODB. The schemas and forms are to generate edit and create forms, the python scripts act like methods on a view, and the templates as, well, templates. 4. When you then run into a thing you can't do through the web you are not stuck. If you want to add new event handler for your type, you can write a new functionality adapter on disk, and then enable it via marker interfces for your type. If you python scripts security becomes a hindrance, you can easily move that to disk by making another marker interface and building views for that. We could even have a button "Export to disk module" which exports the current templates + scripts to a view + methods + templates all on disk. This combines and easy plug-and-play attitude with TTW programming without providing a dead end. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/

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Maintainer of Zope 2 Windows builds?
by Andreas Jung 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

Who is currently in charge or who feels responsible for the Windows builds? Andreas

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