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Re: [Zope-Dev] Some thoughts on splitter (Sin Hang Kin)
by Sin Hang Kin 22 Apr '00

22 Apr '00

----- Original Message ----- From: <zope-dev-admin(a)zope.org> To: <zope-dev(a)zope.org> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 3:00 AM Subject: Zope-Dev digest, Vol 1 #474 - 8 msgs > > Send Zope-Dev maillist submissions to > zope-dev(a)zope.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > zope-dev-request(a)zope.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > zope-dev-admin(a)zope.org > > (When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of Zope-Dev digest...") > > > I mean portability across other objects that may want to 'use' the > document object. If the object gets invisibly transformed, and other > objects don't expect this, things will break. Also, unless the user > specificly wants their text to be transformed they many be > suprised/angered that their text was normalized to unicode. There were two things: 1. insert of the non-joiner to mark the break point of words. 2. The normalize process. Step 1 will really change the document. But it is still not what zcatalog is doing. It is up to the content manager to decide to make that or not. If he decide to do so, he should prepare the content as required. Or make a pre-processor to do it. Only the splitter recognize what the non-joiner as a break point of the word. It is just like spliter recognize space and tab were word break point. Not zope make any decision that nobody wants. Step 2. is performed on making the index, just as you would do to capital the index terms. Not thing change the original content, just when zcatalog make the index, it convert the various encoding to unicode, make normalization, and optionally do more changes like stemming, sym combination etc. But all these will not change the content. Rgs, Kent Sin

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Using Zope as replacement for BSCW ?
by Gerhard Gonter 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

Hi, we are currently using an outdated BSCW installation and are searching a replacement for that thing. Zope might be suitable. Does anybody here have an experience in such a migration? P.S.: for those who do not know BSCW, this is from their web site at bscw.gmd.de : BSCW (Basic Support for Cooperative Work) enables collaboration over the Web. BSCW is a 'shared workspace' system which supports document upload, event notification, group management and much more. To access a workspace you only need a standard Web browser. +gg -- Gerhard.Gonter(a)wu-wien.ac.at Fax: +43/1/31336/702 g.gonter(a)ieee.org Zentrum fuer Informatikdienste, Wirtschaftsuniversitaet Wien, Austria

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Re: [Zope-dev] ZClass nesting/adding desperation
by Rik Hoekstra 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

>Rik, > >I had the exact same problem with a recent design. My very first design >using ZClasses when they first came out, I put all classes in the root of >my product. This made the management interface for "Folders" tough, but >that was the only sacrifice really. (All those messy meta_types) But I >used the "Subobjects" tab and made sure only certain objects could be added >quite nicely to my other ZClasses. > >Also the flexibility for extending this design was better that the one I >laid out using "nested" ZClasses. It turned out that whatever level you >nested a ZClass that was it's level of creation and inheritance. That was >very tricky to design around. > >I am now back to using my first method (all ZClassses under the product). >But I recently discovered a bug that has been reported by Alexandre and a >few others. If you don't subclass ObjectMangaer in your "Base" ZClasses, >and you create subclasses off of you own non-ObjectManager Bases, they >never show up in the management interface or any objectValues(), etc... >Because I didn't do this, and it is bad juju to change the ZClass Base >Classes, I have started to look into creating straight Python Products. > >That's my experience and I hope it helps. > Thanks Jason, I already came to the conclusion that a 'flattened' design was probably the best option. Technically a python product is probably even better. I want to be this a web (read ZClasses) only, product so that it is easily customizable. Ease of management through the web and flexibilty are the main assets of the thing (in contrast to the existing commercial web educational packages). Therefore a ZClasses solution is the only way to go I think. By way of background: this is a product that is to be used for managing an educational site (containing a management layer, a design layer and a flexible web course layer). There are already a zillion methods and properties inside the product and I was reluctant to change it in fear both of breaking things and of getting behind in getting the damn thing out. But I think that is the only option (sigh). Thanks for your help and for thinking along, though. Rik

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Re: [Zope-PTK] Wizards
by Lalo Martins 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

Sorry for the huge quoting and "me too". The intent of this reply is to say I agree with Shalabh and forward the discussion to the Zope-dev list, since it resulted in absolute silence in the PTK list (and after all, this isn't about the PTK anymore, but Zope in general and the site in particular). On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 04:41:13PM +0530, Shalabh Chaturvedi wrote: > Paul Everitt wrote: > > A couple of comments.. > > > > Could someone take some time to summarize this discussion in the Wiki > > setup in the PTK area: > > > > http://www.zope.org/Products/PTK/ (can't remember the URL for the > > Wiki) > > > > I've wanted the PTK (and Zope Mozilla) to be a joint development effort > > with the community. So far one entity has stepped forward and gotten > > CVS access, thought there hasn't been much activity. > > > > Digital Creations needs to find the right rhythym to a more open > > development cycle. At this point, I'm not sure if the lack of > > participation is due to lack of engagement on our part or the > > community's part. > > My $0.02 on this: > > I don't think DC lacks in spirit but I feel that some systems are not in place > to involve and encourage possible participants. This has mostly to do with the > publicly available website and resources. > > For comparison here is a list of 'good' os projects, some big, some small: > http://www.mozilla.org/ > http://www.gnome.org or rather http://developer.gnome.org/ > http://java.apache.org/ > http://www.enhydra.org/ > http://www.jabber.org/ > > 1. The ubiquitous 'Get Involved' link and associated details are missing from > both the PTK and ZopeMoz projects. Anyone browsing doesn't know how > (or even whether) he can contribute. > > 2. Visible Activity: Almost all sites above have 'status', 'news' etc inline > right on the front page. They _look_ alive. > > 3. Developer Resources: Documentation (is being worked on, I believe), External > links, Access to Issues (mentioned by Andrew in his reply), Feature lists > and so on are all loved by developers. > > 4. Identity: Currently both the said projects would appear to be some sort of > extension to Zope, or _sub_projects. This is not very encouraging for > external developers (who are not yet or only recently a part of the > Zope community) since they see that value of the work they might do will > be lost in this huge thing. The people within the community and capable > of contributing are either already in DC or doing so for core Zope. This > makes pulling people from outside more important (and beneficial) than > distributing the existing Zope developers. > > For ZopeMoz: IMO, people with Mozilla knowledge can contribute more than > people with Zope Zen (with the same effort). Since they would come from outside > Zope, the above points become more weighty. <aol> me too. I mean, I agree. </aol> []s, |alo +---- -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://www.webcom.com/lalo mailto:lalo@hackandroll.org pgp key in the personal page Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar

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RE: [Zope-dev] cvs prob
by Brian Lloyd 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

> I keep getting this cvs error > cannot open directory > /cvs-repository/Zope2/lib/python/Products/PythonMe > thod: No such file or directory > > -- > Robin Becker Robin (and anyone else tracking CVS!), The PythonMethod product and SiteObject product have been taken out of the Zope2 core temporarily, as we are contemplating a trunk release fairly soon and there are some things to be done before those 2 products can go out in a release (they won't go out in this one). They are still in the repository, just moved out the way for now. Probably the easiest thing to do for now is to just delete the 'CVS' directories inside those product directories (if you are using the product) and edit Products/CVS/Entries to get rid of references to PythonMethod and SiteObject. That should get rid of the errors. If you are not using the products at all, you can just kill the dirs if you want instead of killing the CVS dirs in those products. Sorry I forgot to give fair warning on this. I guess in the future it should go here? I don't think that there is a list for remote cvs users. Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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Versions without version objects...
by Chris Withers 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

It strikes me as strange that you can create versions without creating version objects. I found this out whilst playing with the versioned FTP How-To: http://www.zope.org/Members/htrd/howto/VersionFTPServer Now because I got the name of the version wrong in z2.py (I missed off the leading /!) it created a seperate version. It seemed to work fine, it's just that there was no associated version object. So I couldn't actually do anything with the version through the management interface, except save or discard changes in Control Panel/Manage Versions. And, thinking about it, there's no way I could delete the version object (that is if one was ever created anywhere...) Is this behaviour as it is supposed to be? If it is, then [1194] in the collector is definitely a bug, and the versions in that list shouldn't have HREF's at all, because there might not even be an object to link to. If versions should have a version object associated with them, then accidental version creation through things like FTP/XML-RPC/etc needs to be prevented. Also, the version objects returned by db.versions() in version_info in ApplicationManager.py should implement absolute_url(). That would solve the problem in bug [1194]. Any comments? Any ideas? I'm chucking this into the collector as well, just so it doesn't get lost... Chris

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cvs prob
by Robin Becker 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

I keep getting this cvs error cannot open directory /cvs-repository/Zope2/lib/python/Products/PythonMe thod: No such file or directory -- Robin Becker

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RE: [Zope-dev] Zope instability problem
by TFE WSD JARVIS JOHN 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

Thank you! Thank you! I've looked over some of the other things there, too. I'll try some of the debugging suggestions posted around. One thing to add: Zope crashing under stress doesn't seem to be related to the Oracle connections. 'list_mon_detail' is an SQL Method but today I found that I get the same results with a regular DTML Document in a folder with no SQL objects at all. It just takes longer and I have to hit it harder. John Jarvis > -----Original Message----- > From: Tres Seaver [SMTP:tseaver@palladion.com] > Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:41 PM > To: TFE WSD JARVIS JOHN > Cc: zope-dev(a)zope.org; Chris Petrilli > Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope instability problem > > Tres Seaver wrote: > > > > TFE WSD JARVIS JOHN <jarvis.sd082(a)ex.tel.co.jp> > > > > Thank you for such a detailed description of the problem, and ways to > > reproduce it. Can you let us know the details of your Oracle setup > > (oracle version, which OCI libraries you pick up, etc.) > > > > Unless you object, I will clone your description over to the > High-Availability > > Zope wiki: > > > > http://www.zope.org/Members/tseaver/Projects/HighlyAvailableZope > > > > BTW, I am assuming that the 'list_mon_detail' method sits on top of a > ZSQL > > Method -- is this correct? > > *Groveling* Please forgive my haste in posting a request for more data > without > reading all the way to the end of your marvelously detailed description. > Mea > culpa, mea maxima culpa. > > I have added said wonder to the wiki at: > > <URL: > http://www.zope.org/Members/tseaver/Projects/HighlyAvailableZope/CrashingZ > opeWithOracle> > > Tres. > -- > ========================================================= > Tres Seaver tseaver(a)digicool.com tseaver(a)palladion.com > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev(a)zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope instability problem
by Tres Seaver 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

TFE WSD JARVIS JOHN <jarvis.sd082(a)ex.tel.co.jp> Thank you for such a detailed description of the problem, and ways to reproduce it. Can you let us know the details of your Oracle setup (oracle version, which OCI libraries you pick up, etc.) Unless you object, I will clone your description over to the High-Availability Zope wiki: http://www.zope.org/Members/tseaver/Projects/HighlyAvailableZope BTW, I am assuming that the 'list_mon_detail' method sits on top of a ZSQL Method -- is this correct? Tres. > > Hi all, > I've been having severe problems with Zope stability lately. > I wanted to provide a more detailed report, but I can't seem to find > out what Zope is doing when it crashes--it seems completely > random. I'd file a bug report, but I'm not sure exactly what to call a > bug here or if there really is a bug and not just a bad setup on my > part. > Well, here goes: > > -- Zope drops connections to Oracle DB > > Based on what I saw with Zope 1, I thought that DB connections were > persistent. Since moving to Zope 2, I've noticed that quite often the > DB connections are lost. After watching the v$session table for a > while, I noticed that when running a number of queries, Zope opens a > number of connections equal to the number of Zope threads. When the > traffic stops for a time (not long), these connections all > disappear. Is this normal? > Often it seems that Zope can't reopen the connection and crashes or > gives an error: "xxxx not connected to a database." > I thought maybe it was a setting on the DB side, but idle time, etc. > is set for infinity for the Zope users. Also, this happens quite > frequently under heavy use. > > -- Zope crashes when using the [Open/Close Database Connection] button. > > Related to the above? Or is the above related to this? > Most often crashes after editing the connection properties or > getting the "xxxx not connected to a database." error, noticing that > the connection is marked as "Not Connected", and then clicking "Open > Database Connection". > > -- Zope crashes after heavy continued useage > > Feeling adventurous, I wrote a script that uses ZClient to request a > query report page using random id's as search parameters. The script > looks something like this: > > --------begin script > > from ZPublisher import Client > from time import time, ctime > from random import random > > i = 0 # number or passes > while 1: > i = i + 1 > id = int(random()*1757) + 20000000 > print "[" + ctime(time()) + "]", "Pass:", i, "No:", id > Client.call('http://appserver:8080/action/list_mon_detail?' > 'call_no='+id, 'anonymous', '') > > ---------end script > > With Zope set for four threads and five instances of the script > running on a different machine, Zope will silently crash within a half > hour. ZDaemon restarts the process if it can, but no errors are > reported (even in debug mode). I've also noticed that memory usage > increases constantly until the crash. I still have gobs left, though. > I've noticed no difference in running through Apache/PCGI or Medusa. > A typical traceback looks something like this: <traceback snipped> -- ========================================================= Tres Seaver tseaver(a)digicool.com tseaver(a)palladion.com

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ZClass nesting/adding desperation
by Rik Hoekstra 20 Apr '00

20 Apr '00

This subject has come up in some form or another several times on the mailing list and I have studied every piece of information I could lay my hands upon, but I can't seem to grasp this. I have a product with a number of nested ZClasses. This is a bit unfortunate, but I want the Classes to only be addable from a specific environment and not have them cluttering the addable objects tab in all folders. As several people have remarked before, the contained classes do not show up in the Subobjects tab (from a certain point onwards Object Manager subclasses do not even show the tab anymore), but this can be overcome by calling their factory methods directly. Now if a ZCLass is contained in another ZClass this works well. But when the ZCLasses are defined on the same level, or if an instance of the same ZClass is to be added to an existing instance, this _will_not_work_. All juggling with dtml-with and calling instances directly can't help this, they are invariably added to the nearest parent folder object. Now this forces me to revise the design of the product, and probably that will solve the question and result in a better product. All the same. Is there any guru out there who can explain what is happening and _why_. Or is this a bug? Rik

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