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Re: RFC: The future of Products.Five
by Rocky Burt 30 Oct '06

30 Oct '06

On Mon, 2006-30-10 at 00:01 +0100, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > Proposal > -------- > > So, what I'm proposing is to feature-freeze the Products.Five package > and just basically keep making it work for future Zope versions. Five > 1.6 (current trunk) will work for Zope 2.11 (current trunk), Five 1.7 > for 2.12, etc. So, essentially there won't be Five feature releases in > between anymore, which means we can put Products.Five into the > Zope/lib/python/Products proper. +1 > New stuff will be added in standard Python packages that may or may not > ship with Zope 2, Plone or whoever needs them. I personally almost don't > care, it's really only about defining the right egg dependencies in > Plone 3.0 or Zope 2.11, I would assume (see also 'Risks' below). This > seems like the release manager's job who would include stuff based on > requests from the community and package maintainer's recommendations. +0 We're really not sure what the story here is yet... trying to sort things out. > The namespace for these packages should probably be 'five', as we > already have five.intid and five.customerize and we are, after all, the > Five project. +1 > Advantages > ---------- > > * We'll be able to use stuff we get for Python packages for free, such > as installation via eggs, Cheeseshop presence and much less majyck for > initialization. terrific. > * Stuff that we create as part of the Five project does not necessarily > have to end up in Zope 2. Currently, stuff added to Products.Five > eventually always ends up in some Zope 2 release which means we'll have > to maintain it forever, no matter how crappy it turns out to be (e.g. > Products.Five.site). great. > * Development of certain components can move much faster than even Five. > New things like five.intid or five.customerize can be experimented with > and already be in the right place if they turn out to be stable. If not, > they won't harm Products.Five, either. Individual packages rather than > one big one also reduces the amount of work that has to be done by the > Five release manager (IOW my work ;)). great. > Risks > ----- > > * If five.* packages need ZCML config (and I know some will), they will > either have to be included the Zope 3 way (site.zcml or package-includes > slug in your instance's 'etc' directory), or we need to come up with an > approach that Zope 2 people are more comfortable with. I think an egg > entry point would be a compelling solution. There are plans to do this > in Zope 3 even so that you can provide configuration from Python instead > of ZCML. I expect this to land in Zope 3.4 which means we should be able > to take advantage of it in 2.11. Interesting, but definitely needs more thought. > * It is unclear to me at this point what Zope 2's egg story will be. I > *hope* that 2.11 will get the same egg story as the Zope 3.4 that ships > with it does, though noone has talked about eggifying Zope 2 yet. We > should probably do that. Indeed. Zope's eggification story needs to be straightened out. We see some of this with Jim's proposals for Zope 3. I'm inclined to watch the discussion for Zope 3 and hopefully see a good solution unfold (of course I won't be afraid to share my opinion). My suspicion is that Zope 2's eggification story will be very similar (best case scenario: identical) to Zope 3's eggification story. So this is one place where I say let Zope 3 work it out first :) > Comments welcome :) Well... constructive comments at least... :) Regards, Rocky -- Rocky Burt ServerZen Software -- http://www.serverzen.com News About The Server (blog) -- http://www.serverzen.net

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Zope Tests: 8 OK, 1 Failed
by Zope Tests Summarizer 29 Oct '06

29 Oct '06

Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Mon Oct 23 10:00:02 2006 UTC to Tue Oct 24 10:00:02 2006 UTC. There were 9 messages: 9 from Zope Unit Tests. Test failures ------------- Subject: FAILED (errors=1) : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Mon Oct 23 21:35:18 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006371.html Tests passed OK --------------- Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.1.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Mon Oct 23 21:23:17 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006363.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Mon Oct 23 21:24:47 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006364.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Mon Oct 23 21:26:17 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006365.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Mon Oct 23 21:27:48 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006366.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Mon Oct 23 21:29:18 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006367.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Mon Oct 23 21:30:48 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006368.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Mon Oct 23 21:32:18 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006369.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Mon Oct 23 21:33:48 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006370.html

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Zope Tests: 10 OK, 2 Failed, 2 Unknown
by Zope Tests Summarizer 29 Oct '06

29 Oct '06

Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Sat Oct 28 11:00:02 2006 UTC to Sun Oct 29 11:00:02 2006 UTC. There were 14 messages: 14 from Zope Unit Tests. Test failures ------------- Subject: FAILED (errors=1) : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 21:23:31 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006412.html Subject: FAILED (errors=1) : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 22:49:02 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006421.html Unknown ------- Subject: UNKNOWN : Zope-2.7 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 21:20:30 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006410.html Subject: UNKNOWN : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 21:22:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006411.html Tests passed OK --------------- Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.1.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 21:17:29 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006408.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 21:19:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006409.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.1.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 22:37:02 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006413.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 22:38:32 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006414.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 22:40:02 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006415.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 22:41:32 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006416.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 22:43:02 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006417.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 22:44:32 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006418.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 22:46:02 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006419.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sat Oct 28 22:47:32 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006420.html

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Zope Tests: 8 OK, 1 Failed
by Zope Tests Summarizer 28 Oct '06

28 Oct '06

Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Fri Oct 27 10:00:01 2006 UTC to Sat Oct 28 10:00:01 2006 UTC. There were 9 messages: 9 from Zope Unit Tests. Test failures ------------- Subject: FAILED (errors=1) : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Fri Oct 27 21:35:31 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006407.html Tests passed OK --------------- Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.1.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Fri Oct 27 21:23:30 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006399.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Fri Oct 27 21:25:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006400.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Fri Oct 27 21:26:30 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006401.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Fri Oct 27 21:28:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006402.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Fri Oct 27 21:29:31 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006403.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Fri Oct 27 21:31:01 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006404.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Fri Oct 27 21:32:31 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006405.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Fri Oct 27 21:34:01 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006406.html

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Zope Tests: 8 OK, 1 Failed
by Zope Tests Summarizer 27 Oct '06

27 Oct '06

Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Thu Oct 26 10:00:02 2006 UTC to Fri Oct 27 10:00:02 2006 UTC. There were 9 messages: 9 from Zope Unit Tests. Test failures ------------- Subject: FAILED (errors=1) : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Thu Oct 26 21:36:06 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006398.html Tests passed OK --------------- Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.1.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Thu Oct 26 21:24:05 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006390.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Thu Oct 26 21:25:35 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006391.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Thu Oct 26 21:27:05 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006392.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Thu Oct 26 21:28:35 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006393.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Thu Oct 26 21:30:06 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006394.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Thu Oct 26 21:31:36 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006395.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Thu Oct 26 21:33:06 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006396.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Thu Oct 26 21:34:36 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006397.html

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buildbot failure in Zope branches 2.9 2.4 Linux zc-buildbot
by buildbot＠zope.com 26 Oct '06

26 Oct '06

The Buildbot has detected a failed build of Zope branches 2.9 2.4 Linux zc-buildbot. Buildbot URL: http://buildbot.zope.org/ Build Reason: changes Build Source Stamp: 8409 Blamelist: andreasjung,andrew,baijum,batlogg,benji_york,ctheune,dobe,faassen,fdrake,flox,hdima,jens,jim,jukart,mgedmin,oestermeier,philikon,rogerineichen,schwendinger,srichter,tseaver,wichert,wosc,yuppie BUILD FAILED: failed test sincerely, -The Buildbot

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Zope Tests: 8 OK, 1 Failed
by Zope Tests Summarizer 26 Oct '06

26 Oct '06

Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Wed Oct 25 10:00:01 2006 UTC to Thu Oct 26 10:00:01 2006 UTC. There were 9 messages: 9 from Zope Unit Tests. Test failures ------------- Subject: FAILED (errors=1) : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Wed Oct 25 21:35:01 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006389.html Tests passed OK --------------- Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.1.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Wed Oct 25 21:23:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006381.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Wed Oct 25 21:24:30 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006382.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Wed Oct 25 21:26:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006383.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Wed Oct 25 21:27:30 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006384.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Wed Oct 25 21:29:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006385.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Wed Oct 25 21:30:30 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006386.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Wed Oct 25 21:32:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006387.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Wed Oct 25 21:33:30 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006388.html

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Zope Tests: 8 OK, 1 Failed
by Zope Tests Summarizer 25 Oct '06

25 Oct '06

Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Tue Oct 24 10:00:02 2006 UTC to Wed Oct 25 10:00:02 2006 UTC. There were 9 messages: 9 from Zope Unit Tests. Test failures ------------- Subject: FAILED (errors=1) : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Tue Oct 24 21:34:58 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006380.html Tests passed OK --------------- Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.1.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Tue Oct 24 21:22:56 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006372.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Tue Oct 24 21:24:27 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006373.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Tue Oct 24 21:25:57 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006374.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Tue Oct 24 21:27:27 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006375.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Tue Oct 24 21:28:57 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006376.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Tue Oct 24 21:30:27 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006377.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Tue Oct 24 21:31:57 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006378.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Tue Oct 24 21:33:27 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006379.html

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Zope Tests: 8 OK, 1 Failed
by Zope Tests Summarizer 23 Oct '06

23 Oct '06

Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Sun Oct 22 10:00:01 2006 UTC to Mon Oct 23 10:00:01 2006 UTC. There were 9 messages: 9 from Zope Unit Tests. Test failures ------------- Subject: FAILED (errors=1) : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sun Oct 22 21:38:31 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006362.html Tests passed OK --------------- Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.1.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sun Oct 22 21:26:29 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006354.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.6 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sun Oct 22 21:27:59 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006355.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sun Oct 22 21:29:29 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006356.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.7 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sun Oct 22 21:31:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006357.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.5 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sun Oct 22 21:32:30 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006358.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sun Oct 22 21:34:00 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006359.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sun Oct 22 21:35:30 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006360.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.3 : Linux From: Zope Unit Tests Date: Sun Oct 22 21:37:01 EDT 2006 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-October/006361.html

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Representation for Zope at PyCon 2007
by Jeff Rush 22 Oct '06

22 Oct '06

PyCon 2007 will be held in Addison (Dallas) from Feb 23 to 25, and we're fast approaching the talk submission deadline of Oct 31. I'd like to encourage talks about Zope, particularly "how to get started with Zope" and also the new technologies coming out of Zope 3. Information on both of those topics has been in very short supply at PyCons. We're also approaching the deadline, Nov 15, for half-day tutorials taught on Feb 22. Attendees register separately for these and teachers can earn up to $1500 per half-day, depending upon the number of students. The tutorial format would be ideal for getting someone up to speed on either Zope 2 or Zope 3. Teach a basic intro in the morning and advanced material in the afternoon. And if you're nervous about such a commitment, tutorials are a great opportunity to partner with another teacher or class helper. As a longtime advocate of Zope (both 2 and 3) I'd very much like to see extensive coverage this year of getting started with Zope 3. Zope has a PR problem, partly from the immense power that comes with it, and the difficulty in getting your arms around it all. It evokes strong feelings and has a distinct philosophy and design tradeoff that you have to understand before you're productive. And with the recent formation of the Zope Foundation, putting forth your best image and getting new members into the community should be a priority. PyCon is a significant opportunity for the Zope community to evangelize. In the PyCon's I've attended one challenge is breaking Zope down into teaching chunks that can be taught in 30-40 minutes. It is very easy to leave the audience behind in the buzzwords and concepts of Zope. So please don't try to teach all of Zope + Plone in 30 minutes. ;-) ;-) One possible talk I think would fit, would help someone just getting into Zope 3 and I wish someone would tackle is the Zope 3 component architecture - nothing about the web or databases or security. Start with the abstract concept of interfaces and adapters, as exists in the zope/interface package, and then layer on it the idea of registries, as implemented in the zope/component package. And wrap up with the reasons why interfaces are better than abstract base classes and what kind of problems adapters are good at solving, including some _non-abstract_ examples. If you'd like to get involved, check out the following conference pages: http://us.pycon.org/TX2007/CallForProposals http://us.pycon.org/TX2007/CallForTutorials Django and TurboGears will be at PyCon in force; I hope Zope will be too. Jeff Rush PyCon 2007 Co-Chair

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