March 2000 - Zope-Dev

Translator 0.1 released
by Alexandre Ratti 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

Hello David, Just a quick note about your message. I haven't tested your product yet but I will this week-end. I have a lot of misgivings about any automated translation system based on words (I am a freelance translator and I turn green whenever I see the output of automated translators on the Web). It just doesn't work because you almost never have a one to one mapping between words in languages. The example you decribed below could generate quite a mess in French for instance because of the complex syntax (eg. "green" can be "vert", "verte", "verts" or "vertes" depending on the context). IMO no translation should be performed if there isn't a 100% match between the glossary table and the localizable string. Example: Translation glossary: {'Squids are beautiful': {'fr': 'Les poulpes sont magnifiques'}, ...} Localizable strings in a text: 1st instance: <dtml-translate>Squids are beautiful</dtm-translate> 2nd instance: <dtml-translate>Squids are beautiful in summer</dtm-translate> The 1st example should be translated because it matches. The 2nd shouldn't. If no match is found then the default (source) language is left as is. If you want to create a glossary of common phrases (a so-called "translation memory") you need to store individual sentences or groups of sentences. Then you can reuse translated sentences across texts. Automated sentence translation is a bit safer because sentences provide much more context than individual words. To summarize, there is a trade-off : when you use longer translation units, you get much higher translation quality but less leverage (i.e reuse) across texts. This is a complex issue... if I get started on it I will talk you to sleep :-). Cheers. Alexandre At 03:37 24/03/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Download the translator from > > http://www.zope.org/Members/jdavid/translator > >The translator product is just the old vocabulary product renamed >following the Michell advices and with a new translate tag which >is a first implementation of the Shane's proposal. > >Suppose the data contained by our Translator instance is: > > {'my': {'es': 'mi'}, > 'house': {'es': 'casa'}, > 'is': {'es': 'es'}, > 'green': {'es: 'verde'} > } > >Then if you type: > > "<dtml-translate>my house is green</dtm-in>" > >and "languages" is "['es']" then the result is "mi casa es verde" >(and it's right!!). > >It does it by: > > - split the string > - translate each word > - join the string > >Yes, this is only a bogus algorithm but it shows how it would be. >Future releases should allow to plug more intelligent translators.

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another dtml-var question
by Sam Gendler 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

Is it possible to sql_quote, then url_quote a variable, without copying the variable first. Something like <dtml-var name sql_quote url_quote>, which doesn't actually work. --sam -- -------------------------- Sam Gendler CTO, Impossible, Inc. 1222 State St. Suite 250 Santa Barbara, CA. 93101 p: 805-560-0508 f: 805-560-0608 c: 805-689-1191 e: sgendler(a)impossible.com

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Re: Translator 0.1 released
by Alexandre Ratti 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

Hello Federico, At 03:37 24/03/2000 -0800, you wrote: >i like the idea of having a translator object inside the folders i >want to translate. but i definitely don't like the necessity of having >"translator" in the url. here's what i think about merging the two >projects... > >lets add two different dtml tags: > >dtml-translate - translates every single word. i don't think is a good > idea to put such a beast inside zope, but somebody can need it, so why > not? we just need to arrange think so that the other tag doesn't need > this stuff. IMO you don't want a tag that translate strings based on word matching. The output won't be usable. (See my rantings in a previous email today). You might get nonsensical translations or partial translations. On the other hand I think "dtml-translate" is an interesting idea if translation is limited to full sentences or longer matches. >dtml-localize - this is a localized variable. normal acquisition does not work > with it. just the url transversal. and even the transversal is limited to > iso names. dtml-lvar looks for localized variables on the translator object > it has access to (default acquisition to find them) and inside folders > with iso names (as l10nfolder does at now.) We may need to look again at the ZI18N product and similar ideas. What do we need ? - A way to offer language choice based on browser settings. - The choice needs to be overridable (eg. first check cookies, then browser settings, then a property, then whatever.) - The language-choice services need to be available for existing products and objects. How about base classes (available for ZClasses too) that affect which object is returned from an URL (eg. return "index_html_FR" or "/FR/index_html" instead of index_html based on browser settings or acquisition path or a language property). Do we really need to add localization tags? Isn't there a way we can handle these issues at object level instead? Or did I miss the point? Cheers. Alexandre

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WebDAV : Can not add webfolder to certain parts of zope
by Sin Hang Kin 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

I can add a webfolder on some brenches of my zope on the same pc under win98 and IE5. However, I can not add the root and some brenches. What is preventing this operation? I got the message when trying: Cannot connect to the Web server http://localost:8080 the server could not be located, or may be too busy to respond. Please check your typing or check to make sure the web server is available. I try to connect to serveral sub-folders under the root, some of them works, some not. However, I could not find the difference between them except the name. Rgs, Kent Sin

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Re: [ZIP] Translator 0.1 released
by fog＠mixadlive.com 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

re-x-posting to zope-dev because is a general problem... sorry. Scavenging the mail folder uncovered Ibañez Palomar Juan David's letter: > > > > > I've just uploaded again the translator (same version number) to > > > Zope.org with a bug fixed, so please download it again. > > > > > > Next week there're holidays in my city so I won't work too much on this. > > > > ok. i am integrating your and mine. i think i'll finish tomorrow or the day > > after. in the meantime, do you know an easy way to extract acquisition > > information from the md args to a dtml-localize method? i need to build > > a list of the object with meta_type == 'Translator' in the acquisition > > path and i am sure a function exists but i can't find it. :( > > > > Look at the TranslateTag source code, specially the lines: > > expression = VSEval.Eval("translator('%s')" % word, expr_globals) > translation.append(expression.eval(md)) > > the first line builds the expression and the second one evaluates it. unfortunately it does not help. i don't want to build an expression, i simply want a list of objects with meta_type == 'Translator' in the acquisition path. then i call the translate method on them and return the first thing that does not bombs out an AttributeError. thank you anyway, federico -- Federico Di Gregorio MIXAD LIVE System Programmer fog(a)mixadlive.com Debian GNU/Linux Developer & Italian Press Contact fog(a)debian.org The reverse side also has a reverse side. -- Japanese proverb

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XML Export.
by Otto Hammersmith 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

Perhaps, there's hope yet for a standard XML format for the Import/Export feature? See http://www.xml.com/pub/2000/03/22/psi/index.html. -Otto.

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Re: [Zope] Strange line in User.py
by Evan Simpson 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

----- Original Message ----- From: Nicola Larosa <n.larosa(a)mclink.it> > In lib/python/AccessControl/User.py I find the following lines: > > 368> _remote_user_mode=_remote_user_mode > 369> _super=super > 370> _nobody=nobody These lines copy the values of three module-global names into the BasicUserFolder class namespace, slightly changing the name of two of them to prevent untrusted access to them. I've redirected this thread to zope-dev. Cheers, Evan @ digicool & 4-am

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ZODB: interface for walking object graph?
by Andrew M. Kuchling 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

I'd like a way to find all instances of a given class in a ZODB. (In ODBMS jargon, this feature seems to be called "class extents".) The purpose is to handle changes to a class that require rearranging; you can do it lazily in a __setstate__ method, but after you've had 10 changes, that __setstate__ will be really complicated. And you can never simplify it, because you never know if there's a version 1 object hiding somewhere that just hasn't been accessed yet. Instead, I'd like to do it eagerly; write a script that loops over all the instances of class C, make a change to all of them, and then commit. I only see one way of doing this, by walking over the whole object graph starting from the ZODB's root objects. Storage objects do this in their pack() method to determine reachability. Problem: you'd have to copy the walking logic out of the pack() method into your own method. Proposal: expose some interface allowing clients of a Connection to run a function over every single object in a ZODB. It'd be like os.path.walk(), except over objects, not directories and files. This means unpickling *every* *single* object in the ZODB (and sending them all over the wire if you're using ZEO). Inefficient, but there seems no other alternative, and you wouldn't do this very often. Jim, what's your reaction? -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.python.net/crew/amk/ Somehow the people who do as they please seem to get along just about as well as those who are always trying to please others. -- Bob Edwards

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [ZIP] dtml-str idea
by Tres Seaver 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

Can we please quit crossposting this to zope-dev? I end up seeing the messages twice. This discussion really belongs on the ZIP list. -- ========================================================= Tres Seaver tseaver(a)palladion.com 713-523-6582 Palladion Software http://www.palladion.com

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Re: [Zope-dev] ZODB: interface for walking object graph?
by Tres Seaver 24 Mar '00

24 Mar '00

"Andrew M. Kuchling" <akuchlin(a)mems-exchange.org> wrote: > Pavlos Christoforou writes: > >On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Andrew M. Kuchling wrote: > >instances in place? Lets suppose there is such a function. What should > >it happen when you do find such an 'unreachable' object. Modify it > > You can't find unreachable objects doing a reachability scan starting > from the root, so this doesn't matter. Transactions are a tricky > problem; if you're trying to modify every instance of C, but someone > else is always modifying a C instance, you'll probably never be able > to commit. You might have to modify instances in smaller batches and > commit after each batch, then. Paulos Chrstoforou replied: > I was under the impression you were interested in modifying all > versions of instances even old ones. Even those can be found during a pack > operation at least the pack operation in dbmStorage does find them. If > only the 'current' versions are to be modified then things get a lot > easier (a python script will do I suppose), unless someone is continously > updating the relevant instanceas you've mentioned. You could do this in a Version, perhaps -- that would lock the instances as they were changed, freezing out the "frequent writers," which isn't that bad an idea if you are changing their class, anyway; the other alternative would be to bring the HTTP server down and run the update in the Monitor. -- ========================================================= Tres Seaver tseaver(a)palladion.com 713-523-6582 Palladion Software http://www.palladion.com

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