April 2000 - Zope-Dev

Testing a ZCatalog index type
by Alexandre Ratti 23 Apr '00

23 Apr '00

Hello, Is there a way to test the type of a ZCatalog index from DTML or Python (eg. TextIndex | FieldIndex | KeywordIndex)? I can loop on "indexes" to get the index names. However, I had a look at the sources and I couldn't find any way to retrieve an index type. It looks like the index type is only used in "addIndex" in Catalog.py when first creating the index. Any hope? Thanks. Alexandre

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Just so that it's noted
by Morten W. Petersen 23 Apr '00

23 Apr '00

The  syntax is deprecated, right? If it is removed in the future, it could be a "good thing" to have a product which accepts this syntax, because some people will be using HTML editors that only accept the old syntax. Should this be submitted as as "feature wanted" on the Collector? -Morten

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Disable manage interface on-purpose
by Sin Hang Kin 23 Apr '00

23 Apr '00

The manage interface is really making web masters and boss worry. It seems not easy to separate them from an ordinary zope site without restricting its usage. However, with a production web server like these is really a danger. It is also a preventing device for un-technical user to adopting zope. Are there solutions such that to restrict the interactive management interface from being use with run-time option? May not a technically correct move, but certianly have reason for marketing. An anonymous-only flag? no-superuser flag? Rgs, Kent Sin ----------------------------------- Q u o t i n g F r o m Z o p e A d m L i s t ---------------------------- okay, that means that instead of it taking N tries to hack a password, it takes N^2 tries. *shrug* a little better. is there a way to run all the /manage pages behind SSL, so they're less prone to password sniffing? or to rename /manage to something a little more obscure? it just seems to me that the /manage URLs are just waiting to be exploited by some cracker. srl, picking security nits

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Re: Some thoughts on spliter
by Sin Hang Kin 23 Apr '00

23 Apr '00

Searching through over a big collection with pattern matching is not good enough. So, your scheme would only works in small scale. With a small site or within one site, it would do well. When the amount of information is big, the simple and/or search is not enough. Then, we need to learn the word boundary for ideographical text. This would be done automatically or by human or combine with both, and is should not be limited by the system designer, because the technology will change and the best suitable way to findout the word boundary is always different. I strongly aginst the single character boundary solution, which have been in used for a long time in the currently implementation. When people think search is simple and they found the system useful in a small system. When apply this tech in internet, this is a joke. Do not go this way: You make a short life system which is not going to be useful in a short time. If you want to have such a system, simply modify the spliter.py and you have what you need, we do not need this build into the next generation zcatalog. Please don't. Rgs, Kent Sin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Wittern" <chris(a)ccbs.ntu.edu.tw> To: "Sin Hang Kin" <kentsin(a)poboxes.com>; <zope-dev(a)zope.org> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 2:10 PM Subject: RE: [Zope-Dev] Some thoughts on splitter (Sin Hang Kin) > After giving it some thought over the past few days, I came up with some > more things re Splitter and Catalog searching in general. I will first post > them here and see what feedback people might have and then put them into the > WIKI. > > As was pointed out repeatly, words, word-boundaries and the like do not > exist in the same way as in Western languages in some Asian languages (or > writing systems). One way to overcame problems associated with > word-splitting is to do no word splitting at all and instead split on every > character. > > As soon as ZCatalog starts using Unicode, this could even be incorporated in > the default Splitter, which could be told to do word splitting on some > character ranges and character splitting on others. > > It seems to me, that this is the approach generally used on the Web by Asian > language search engines. > > To accomodate this, there have to be some changes to the way searches are > done as well: On most search engine, giving a few search terms separated by > whitespace means ANDing them for the search, which is fine. If this is not > desired however, most search engines allow the user to use quotes to > indicate the terms should be used as a phrase. Unfortunately, Zope does not > support this yet. I think it is highly desirable!!! > > If ZCatalog would support this type of search, this could be used for Asian > languages and searches would return results where to or more characters are > searched for, by looking for documents, where they occur in sequence. > > Does this make any sense? > > All the best, > > Christian > >

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Re: [Zope-Dev] Some thoughts on splitter (Sin Hang Kin)
by Sin Hang Kin 22 Apr '00

22 Apr '00

----- Original Message ----- From: <zope-dev-admin(a)zope.org> To: <zope-dev(a)zope.org> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 3:00 AM Subject: Zope-Dev digest, Vol 1 #474 - 8 msgs > > Send Zope-Dev maillist submissions to > zope-dev(a)zope.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > zope-dev-request(a)zope.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > zope-dev-admin(a)zope.org > > (When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of Zope-Dev digest...") > > > I mean portability across other objects that may want to 'use' the > document object. If the object gets invisibly transformed, and other > objects don't expect this, things will break. Also, unless the user > specificly wants their text to be transformed they many be > suprised/angered that their text was normalized to unicode. There were two things: 1. insert of the non-joiner to mark the break point of words. 2. The normalize process. Step 1 will really change the document. But it is still not what zcatalog is doing. It is up to the content manager to decide to make that or not. If he decide to do so, he should prepare the content as required. Or make a pre-processor to do it. Only the splitter recognize what the non-joiner as a break point of the word. It is just like spliter recognize space and tab were word break point. Not zope make any decision that nobody wants. Step 2. is performed on making the index, just as you would do to capital the index terms. Not thing change the original content, just when zcatalog make the index, it convert the various encoding to unicode, make normalization, and optionally do more changes like stemming, sym combination etc. But all these will not change the content. Rgs, Kent Sin

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Using Zope as replacement for BSCW ?
by Gerhard Gonter 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

Hi, we are currently using an outdated BSCW installation and are searching a replacement for that thing. Zope might be suitable. Does anybody here have an experience in such a migration? P.S.: for those who do not know BSCW, this is from their web site at bscw.gmd.de : BSCW (Basic Support for Cooperative Work) enables collaboration over the Web. BSCW is a 'shared workspace' system which supports document upload, event notification, group management and much more. To access a workspace you only need a standard Web browser. +gg -- Gerhard.Gonter(a)wu-wien.ac.at Fax: +43/1/31336/702 g.gonter(a)ieee.org Zentrum fuer Informatikdienste, Wirtschaftsuniversitaet Wien, Austria

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Re: [Zope-dev] ZClass nesting/adding desperation
by Rik Hoekstra 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

>Rik, > >I had the exact same problem with a recent design. My very first design >using ZClasses when they first came out, I put all classes in the root of >my product. This made the management interface for "Folders" tough, but >that was the only sacrifice really. (All those messy meta_types) But I >used the "Subobjects" tab and made sure only certain objects could be added >quite nicely to my other ZClasses. > >Also the flexibility for extending this design was better that the one I >laid out using "nested" ZClasses. It turned out that whatever level you >nested a ZClass that was it's level of creation and inheritance. That was >very tricky to design around. > >I am now back to using my first method (all ZClassses under the product). >But I recently discovered a bug that has been reported by Alexandre and a >few others. If you don't subclass ObjectMangaer in your "Base" ZClasses, >and you create subclasses off of you own non-ObjectManager Bases, they >never show up in the management interface or any objectValues(), etc... >Because I didn't do this, and it is bad juju to change the ZClass Base >Classes, I have started to look into creating straight Python Products. > >That's my experience and I hope it helps. > Thanks Jason, I already came to the conclusion that a 'flattened' design was probably the best option. Technically a python product is probably even better. I want to be this a web (read ZClasses) only, product so that it is easily customizable. Ease of management through the web and flexibilty are the main assets of the thing (in contrast to the existing commercial web educational packages). Therefore a ZClasses solution is the only way to go I think. By way of background: this is a product that is to be used for managing an educational site (containing a management layer, a design layer and a flexible web course layer). There are already a zillion methods and properties inside the product and I was reluctant to change it in fear both of breaking things and of getting behind in getting the damn thing out. But I think that is the only option (sigh). Thanks for your help and for thinking along, though. Rik

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Re: [Zope-PTK] Wizards
by Lalo Martins 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

Sorry for the huge quoting and "me too". The intent of this reply is to say I agree with Shalabh and forward the discussion to the Zope-dev list, since it resulted in absolute silence in the PTK list (and after all, this isn't about the PTK anymore, but Zope in general and the site in particular). On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 04:41:13PM +0530, Shalabh Chaturvedi wrote: > Paul Everitt wrote: > > A couple of comments.. > > > > Could someone take some time to summarize this discussion in the Wiki > > setup in the PTK area: > > > > http://www.zope.org/Products/PTK/ (can't remember the URL for the > > Wiki) > > > > I've wanted the PTK (and Zope Mozilla) to be a joint development effort > > with the community. So far one entity has stepped forward and gotten > > CVS access, thought there hasn't been much activity. > > > > Digital Creations needs to find the right rhythym to a more open > > development cycle. At this point, I'm not sure if the lack of > > participation is due to lack of engagement on our part or the > > community's part. > > My $0.02 on this: > > I don't think DC lacks in spirit but I feel that some systems are not in place > to involve and encourage possible participants. This has mostly to do with the > publicly available website and resources. > > For comparison here is a list of 'good' os projects, some big, some small: > http://www.mozilla.org/ > http://www.gnome.org or rather http://developer.gnome.org/ > http://java.apache.org/ > http://www.enhydra.org/ > http://www.jabber.org/ > > 1. The ubiquitous 'Get Involved' link and associated details are missing from > both the PTK and ZopeMoz projects. Anyone browsing doesn't know how > (or even whether) he can contribute. > > 2. Visible Activity: Almost all sites above have 'status', 'news' etc inline > right on the front page. They _look_ alive. > > 3. Developer Resources: Documentation (is being worked on, I believe), External > links, Access to Issues (mentioned by Andrew in his reply), Feature lists > and so on are all loved by developers. > > 4. Identity: Currently both the said projects would appear to be some sort of > extension to Zope, or _sub_projects. This is not very encouraging for > external developers (who are not yet or only recently a part of the > Zope community) since they see that value of the work they might do will > be lost in this huge thing. The people within the community and capable > of contributing are either already in DC or doing so for core Zope. This > makes pulling people from outside more important (and beneficial) than > distributing the existing Zope developers. > > For ZopeMoz: IMO, people with Mozilla knowledge can contribute more than > people with Zope Zen (with the same effort). Since they would come from outside > Zope, the above points become more weighty. <aol> me too. I mean, I agree. </aol> []s, |alo +---- -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://www.webcom.com/lalo mailto:lalo@hackandroll.org pgp key in the personal page Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar

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RE: [Zope-dev] cvs prob
by Brian Lloyd 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

> I keep getting this cvs error > cannot open directory > /cvs-repository/Zope2/lib/python/Products/PythonMe > thod: No such file or directory > > -- > Robin Becker Robin (and anyone else tracking CVS!), The PythonMethod product and SiteObject product have been taken out of the Zope2 core temporarily, as we are contemplating a trunk release fairly soon and there are some things to be done before those 2 products can go out in a release (they won't go out in this one). They are still in the repository, just moved out the way for now. Probably the easiest thing to do for now is to just delete the 'CVS' directories inside those product directories (if you are using the product) and edit Products/CVS/Entries to get rid of references to PythonMethod and SiteObject. That should get rid of the errors. If you are not using the products at all, you can just kill the dirs if you want instead of killing the CVS dirs in those products. Sorry I forgot to give fair warning on this. I guess in the future it should go here? I don't think that there is a list for remote cvs users. Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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Versions without version objects...
by Chris Withers 21 Apr '00

21 Apr '00

It strikes me as strange that you can create versions without creating version objects. I found this out whilst playing with the versioned FTP How-To: http://www.zope.org/Members/htrd/howto/VersionFTPServer Now because I got the name of the version wrong in z2.py (I missed off the leading /!) it created a seperate version. It seemed to work fine, it's just that there was no associated version object. So I couldn't actually do anything with the version through the management interface, except save or discard changes in Control Panel/Manage Versions. And, thinking about it, there's no way I could delete the version object (that is if one was ever created anywhere...) Is this behaviour as it is supposed to be? If it is, then [1194] in the collector is definitely a bug, and the versions in that list shouldn't have HREF's at all, because there might not even be an object to link to. If versions should have a version object associated with them, then accidental version creation through things like FTP/XML-RPC/etc needs to be prevented. Also, the version objects returned by db.versions() in version_info in ApplicationManager.py should implement absolute_url(). That would solve the problem in bug [1194]. Any comments? Any ideas? I'm chucking this into the collector as well, just so it doesn't get lost... Chris

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