July 1999 - Zope-Dev

Unable to add folder in today's cvs w/traceback
by Bill Anderson 03 Jul '99

03 Jul '99

Upon trying to add a new folder in today's updated cvs, I get the following:  This happens regardless of options selected. Root folder obviously ;-) Just thought I would give a heads up in case someone has fixed it and I missed it somewhere. Bill

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RE: [Zope-dev] The Product API is not easy to use!
by Josh Zeidner 03 Jul '99

03 Jul '99

>That's Michel. -- sorry about that... > > Maybe a better question would be : are there > > products from > > business organizations that are modelled more traditionally( revenue > > obtained through licenseing ). Examples of which might be > > listed above. On > > a similar topic, how does Digital Creations obtain revenue? > >We consult for a fee. This has allways been our business model. During >the past 3 years, we have developed a killer web application in Python. >So instead of keeping it closed source and having only a dozen >customers, we give it away to get hundreds. Our clients have never >payed for 'the software' just 'the solution'. -- so possibly you see Zope as a sort of "residue" of your companies real products( solutions providing )? > > Whats to stop a company such as mine to take Zope > > and totally > > bypass Digital Creations? Has such a thing happened before? > >Go ahead. You are welcome to use any part of Zope in your own product. >In fact, we *want* you to do this. If you do, however, you must comply >with the license: >You could concievably use our software and not credit us and not tell >us, but then you would have to deal with the snarling killer dogs that >Hadar hires for his lawers. -- therefore you count your companies assets not in patents or copyrights, but rather in your ability to use and leverage existing technology like Zope. > > On a less related topic... is Frontier( or any of the > > products listed > > above) similar to Zope? >I've never used frontier, so I don't know. However, I do know that >Frontier and Zope play well together because they speak a similar >protocol, XML-RPC. -- Is this the new version of Zope you are talking about? -- when will this be available for WinNT? -- How does digital creations cover the overhead involved for doing things like packaging releases... coordinating Zope site, ect... -- It is my contention that the software industry is moving in the direction of "Open Source" licensing. However, I have found that companies cannot let thier mission-critical systems ride on the development efforts of three million hobbyists( "a thousand voices" ). Systems( +languages? ) must be created to allow for efficient collaboration and Quality Assurance( a development democracy!!! ). Do you have any ideas in mind for how this work could be carried out? -- jmz _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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Folder Creation
by Jason Spisak 02 Jul '99

02 Jul '99

Just a heads up, As of 12:00 Pacfic Time Friday(Today) the CVS checkout won't allow the addition of folders. Traceback is: exceptions.TypeError Folder.py line 137 in manage_addFolder TypeError: too many arguments; expected 2, got 3. Also image display is broken. I try to view and image that uploads fine to Zope 1.10 and Zope 2.0.0a3 download inside the CVS version and I get a broken image. No traceback, just a broken image. Same is true for the image is uploaded in the ZClasses "Basic" Tab. Again, just a heads up. BTW it is good to be back working in Zope again. The Catalog is really changed since I last worked with it. Some great stuff going on! -- Jason Spisak webmaster(a)mtear.com

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RE: [Zope-dev] The Product API is not easy to use!
by Michel Pelletier 02 Jul '99

02 Jul '99

Please continue to CC the zope-dev list on this discussion. > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Zeidner [mailto:jmz_phylogenic@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 4:56 PM > To: michel(a)digicool.com > Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] The Product API is not easy to use! > > > > > > > > > Are there any licencesd products like Zope? > > > > > > For Instance: > > > > > > Enterprise Java Beans > > > WebLogic Server > > > Persistance > > > Vignette StoryServer > > > > > > -Josh Zeidner > > > > > > >I'm not sure quite what your mean by 'licensed'. Zope is licensed > >software under the Zope Public License 1.0. > > > >Do you mean commercial? > > > >-Michel > > > > Hello Micheal, > That's Michel. > Thank you for your response. > > Hmm, maybe my understanding of Zope and Digital Creations > is not as good > as I thought. Maybe a better question would be : are there > products from > business organizations that are modelled more traditionally( revenue > obtained through licenseing ). Examples of which might be > listed above. On > a similar topic, how does Digital Creations obtain revenue? We consult for a fee. This has allways been our business model. During the past 3 years, we have developed a killer web application in Python. So instead of keeping it closed source and having only a dozen customers, we give it away to get hundreds. Our clients have never payed for 'the software' just 'the solution'. > Do you see this > as being a stronger model that that of the more traditional software > companies? Yes. > Whats to stop a company such as mine to take Zope > and totally > bypass Digital Creations? Has such a thing happened before? Go ahead. You are welcome to use any part of Zope in your own product. In fact, we *want* you to do this. If you do, however, you must comply with the license: # 4. All advertising materials and documentation mentioning # features derived from or use of this software must display # the following acknowledgement: # # "This product includes software developed by Digital Creations # for use in the Z Object Publishing Environment # (http://www.zope.org/)" You could concievably use our software and not credit us and not tell us, but then you would have to deal with the snarling killer dogs that Hadar hires for his lawers. > > On a less related topic... is Frontier( or any of the > products listed > above) similar to Zope? > I've never used frontier, so I don't know. However, I do know that Frontier and Zope play well together because they speak a similar protocol, XML-RPC. Thus, Zope can work as a Frontier backend or vice versa. Feature cooperation of competing products is a far stronger model than feature competition. Even if Frontier competes with us, who cares? Our software is free, they are taking no money out of our pockets. And if their software is useful enough for people to pay for it, and it works very well with Zope, then the chances are higher that we will score another customer from that relationship. In fact, other than Frontier, this is a MAJOR flaw in the other products you listed. They don't work with anything but themselves, which is another way of saying they commoditize identical features between each other. They do the same thing, but in a completly incompatable way then their competetors in the interest of winning over customers and making money from the sale. This is a perfectly acceptable business model, but it's not ours; we feel ours (and in a similar way Frontier's) is stronger than that. -Michel > > -Joshua Zeidner > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com >

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RE: [Zope-dev] The Product API is not easy to use!
by Michel Pelletier 02 Jul '99

02 Jul '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Zeidner [mailto:jmz_phylogenic@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 1:32 AM > To: zope-dev(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope-dev] The Product API is not easy to use! > > > I have been trying to make my own Zope product and I am > sorry to say that > I have found it to be a daunting task. Does anyone know > where I can go to > get better info? Is there anyone who has created a product > who is not > working for Digital Creations? Debugging facilities are > non-existent and > documentation is esoteric. Should I say goodbye to Zope forever? > For years the Apache module API was difficult to use and undocumented. Would you have said goodbye to Apache then? There are lots of new docs on the horizon. Amos and Pam are coordinating the new Zope Developers Guide, and soon there will be a *very* exciting announcment on Zope developer documentation that will be available in about six months. This has been a long standing problem, my first Zope app was when Zope was Principia and the source code was encrypted bytecode, the only way to figure out the API then was to bug Jim and use black-boxing techniques in a python interpreter (and yes, I had to walk uphill both ways to work every day too). Now that the source code is available and you get to know your way around, documentation is almost superfulous (that's what we tell ourselves at least, we realize that this is an unacceptable situation for most). There are two extrememly useful debugging tools, one is even documented. The Zope debugger and the medusa monitor client. The debugger lets you simulate a REQUEST to Zope and to enter the Python debugger at certain key breakpoints in the request path. cd to lib/python (make sure Zope is NOT running): [michel@aldous python]$ python1.5.2 Python 1.5.2 (#1, Apr 14 1999, 10:34:26) [GCC 2.7.2.3] on linux2 Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam >>> import Zope, ZPublisher >>> ZPublisher.Zope('') ... output from a request for '' which is the same as http://machine:port/ >>> ZPublisher.Zope('/manage', u='superuser:123', d=1) ... 'd=1' means enter the debugger immediatly, u='' is the userid and password to access the request (if it needs one). More information on the pyhton debugger can be found at http://www.python.org >>> ZPublisher.Zope('', t=1) ... runs the requst for '' 1000 times and prints the average time it takes to complete one request. Note that the above is for Zope 2.0 ONLY. If you are using Zope 1.10.2 it works ALMOST the same, except instead of saying 'Zope' everywhere, you say 'Main' like: >>> import Main, ZPublisher >>> ZPublisher.Main('') The medusa monitor client put you at a python prompt, RIGHT INSIDE ZOPE. This is so incredibly useful that sometimes I break into Tears Of Joy (tm) that Sam implimented this. Go to your top level directory and cd ZServer/medusa: [michel@aldous medusa]$ python1.5.2 monitor_client.py localhost 9999 Enter Password: XXXXX Python 1.5.2 (#1, Apr 14 1999, 10:34:26) [GCC 2.7.2.3] Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam Welcome to <secure_monitor_channel connected 127.0.0.1:2499 at 85f88c8> [Hint: try 'from __main__ import *'] >>> import Zope >>> x = Zope.app() >>> x <Application instance at 86dc130> >>> x.cat <ZCatalog instance at 86e90a0> >>> You are sitting right inside Zope. x=Zope.app() makes a connection to the database, at which point 'x' is the 'root folder' of your Zope install. (ZDP guys, you might want to put this on the site) -Michel > - Josh Zeidner > Phylogenic Inc > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > (For non-developer, user-level issues, use the companion list, > zope(a)zope.org, http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) >

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RE: [Zope-dev] "ZCatalog-aware ZClasses"
by Michel Pelletier 02 Jul '99

02 Jul '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Baxter [mailto:anthony@interlink.com.au] > Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 12:56 AM > To: zope-dev(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope-dev] "ZCatalog-aware ZClasses" > > > I saw this question asked, but didn't see an answer - what's a > "ZCatalog-aware ZClass" involve? > > looking at the ZCatalog source, it looks like one way would be to > make the code that adds the object instance search for a ZCatalog > object, then call catalog.catalog_object(object, objecturl) - and > the delete method should then call > catalog.uncatalog_object(objecturl). > Exactly. In most cases 'search for a ZCatalog' would just be acquisition. > Is it just a matter of making a single class that does just this, and > make the ZClasses you build inherit from it? Or is there a > simpler way? The easiest way we've found is to make a Z(Base)Class called 'Findable' which impliments the adding, deleting, and findable attributes (which you can override in (Sub)Zclasses). How can it get any simpler than that? I suppose it could cook breakfast for you. ;) -Michel > > Anthony > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > (For non-developer, user-level issues, use the companion list, > zope(a)zope.org, http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) >

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The Product API is not easy to use!
by Josh Zeidner 02 Jul '99

02 Jul '99

I have been trying to make my own Zope product and I am sorry to say that I have found it to be a daunting task. Does anyone know where I can go to get better info? Is there anyone who has created a product who is not working for Digital Creations? Debugging facilities are non-existent and documentation is esoteric. Should I say goodbye to Zope forever? - Josh Zeidner Phylogenic Inc _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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RE: [Zope-dev] Zope 2 can't paste my objects
by Brian Lloyd 02 Jul '99

02 Jul '99

This has been fixed in CVS... there still seems to be a problem with copying/pasting ZClass instances, though. Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Itai Tavor [mailto:itavor@bigpond.net.au] > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 3:44 AM > To: Phil Harris; zope-dev(a)zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2 can't paste my objects > > > Hmmm... just tried it... one folder copy worked fine... two items > failed, but with a totally different error message. Oh well... guess > I'll have to wait for the bug to be fixed before I know if there's > also a problem with my products. > > At 8:28 AM +0100 7/1/99, Phil Harris wrote: > >This is a reported bug (I reported it :)). > > > >It happens under all versions of Zope2, no news on a fix yet. > > > >It even happens when you try to copy a straight forward > 'folder' type, or > >when copying more than one 'simple' type. > > > >HTH > > > >Phil > >phil(a)philh.org > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Itai Tavor <itavor(a)bigpond.net.au> > >To: <zope-dev(a)zope.org> > >Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 6:49 AM > >Subject: [Zope-dev] Zope 2 can't paste my objects > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I wrote a few products, which work fine under Zope 1.11 > and also seem > > > to work under Zope 2.0.0a3. But when I copy one of my > objects and try > > > to paste it (using ZServer on a ZODB3 database) I get: > > > > > > Traceback (innermost last): > > > File /opt/Zope-2.0.0a3/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line > > > 256, in publish_module > > > File /opt/Zope-2.0.0a3/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line > > > 161, in publish > > > File > /opt/Zope-2.0.0a3/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 154, in > >mapply > > > (Object: manage_pasteObjects) > > > File > /opt/Zope-2.0.0a3/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 98, > > > in call_object > > > (Object: manage_pasteObjects) > > > File > /opt/Zope-2.0.0a3/lib/python/OFS/CopySupport.py, line 198, > > > in manage_pasteObjects > > > (Object: template) > > > File > /opt/Zope-2.0.0a3/lib/python/OFS/CopySupport.py, line 388, in > >_getCopy > > > (Object: 3) > > > File > /opt/Zope-2.0.0a3/lib/python/ZODB/ExportImport.py, line 183, > > > in importFile > > > NameError: TupleType > > > > > > This doesn't happen when running Zerver on a ZODB2 database (using > >z2.py -2). > > > > > > The same thing happens with all my products... so obviously > > > something's wrong with them. But what? As far as I could > see none of > > > the documents regarding the products API say anything specific for > > > Zope 2. And what is ZODB doing in importFile anyway when I'm only > > > trying to paste an object? > > > > > > Itai > > > -- > > > Itai Tavor -- "Je sautille, donc je > suis." -- > > > itavor(a)vic.bigpond.net.au -- - Kermit > the Frog -- > > > -- > -- > > > -- "Every day, once a day, give yourself a present" - > Dale Cooper -- > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev(a)zope.org > > > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > > > > > (For non-developer, user-level issues, use the companion list, > > > zope(a)zope.org, http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > > > > -- > Itai Tavor -- "Je sautille, donc je suis." -- > itavor(a)vic.bigpond.net.au -- - Kermit the Frog -- > -- -- > -- "If you haven't got your health, you haven't got anything" -- > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > (For non-developer, user-level issues, use the companion list, > zope(a)zope.org, http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) >

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"ZCatalog-aware ZClasses"
by Anthony Baxter 02 Jul '99

02 Jul '99

I saw this question asked, but didn't see an answer - what's a "ZCatalog-aware ZClass" involve? looking at the ZCatalog source, it looks like one way would be to make the code that adds the object instance search for a ZCatalog object, then call catalog.catalog_object(object, objecturl) - and the delete method should then call catalog.uncatalog_object(objecturl). Is it just a matter of making a single class that does just this, and make the ZClasses you build inherit from it? Or is there a simpler way? Anthony

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RE: Zope paste error: FIX
by Anthony Pfrunder 02 Jul '99

02 Jul '99

Hi, Oops, forgot to read the rest of the list. Apparently it IS fixed in the CVS but for those (like me) who operate off the releases the patch may be of use Cheers, Anthony Pfrunder

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